Infidelity, cheating of whatever the name is, is lying; but, before lying to somebody, for me it means the person lyies to oneself in the first place. About what? that is the mystery. Many said here it might be a pattern, I agree, and in addition, this issue can be, maybe seen on other levels of the person's character (work, friendship, etc). That might have deep roots when the pattern is so obvious...something like: the person cheats, to be found obviously, and that means to uncounsciously hurt the other person, as maybe they have been hurted...So, it's a projection...So, ladies, in the long run, It's not the case to take it personnaly (yeah, easy to say, when it hurts so much...some might say)...the person has issues...and deep ones...My 2 cents...and sorry for my english!! I experienced that...drove me nuts...so i tried to dissect, to digg a bit more into the dynamic...I was wondering why did I attracted that type of man...hm!...:)
beautynbrains4u write: Fortunately, I have always been faithful in my relationships as have my partners. This hypothetical question has been discussed among my friends. Do you think you could forgive infidelity?
Does it matter which definition you are forgiving? I looked the word up and found the following.
1. Unfaithfulness to a sexual partner, especially a spouse. 2. An act of sexual unfaithfulness. 3. Lack of fidelity or loyalty. 4. Lack of religious belief.
Sure the first two bruise the ego. Especially if the lady leaves a man for another woman - would you agree Bob? lol
Seriously though think if your spouse took another lover such as drugs or alcohol. How many disappointments/let downs/ chances should they be given? What if it begins to hurt the family or children.
Oh for those of us that are believers what about the spiritual infidelities?
So ask the question again can you forgive? But which one can't you forgive?
******* Good thoughts here everyone, As far as the definition of cheating goes, I believe all of those qualify fully, if you're heart has wandered from the one you are sharing your life and bed with, then be a man and end it. Don't drag people around pretending that life is moving forward, and that you are "planning a future" for the two of you. Number 3 in that list is the base of it all, for the sexual or physical part to take place there first has to be an infidelity of spirit, or lack of loyalty. Like they say "where the heart leads" The cheating starts in the mind, and goes from there...so the third item in that list should in fact be first...
TallSwtInstblKat write: Thank you for caring girls. I have never had anyone cheat on me before, not even mentally, not to this extend, I understand that men are visual creatures and they will look, but looking is different than writing sweet things getting sweet responses and making plans to meet... I will be in London perhaps we can meet? Yeah... go ahead! Hurt more women, I wish that only once they would really love someone and they will get the same from someone what they do to them, any woman will see (hopefully sooner than later) what he is about. I am just very hurt. But I hope it will pass soon. Girls I know it's hard to let go, especially when you love your jerk, but infidelity is not a thing you can forgive or forget, if he did it once, he will do it all the time, especially if he sees you forgave him, than they just take us for a fool. Now I too know how it feels...
I have a theory, if you keep on cutting the same cut over and over it starts to get rotten and will never heal, the same happens to our hearts, I always try to give a person the benefit of the doubt, I believe everyone deserves a chance to be nice to them when you meet them, everyone also deserves a chance when they are being mean, I think to my self "maybe they had a rotten day", but if a person does it over and over I become discouraged and don't like them as much any more, and less with every time they do it.
Cheating... a cheater will always be just that. They WILL do it, whether it's to you or the next woman, but they will. I feel sorry for the next girl who thinks "oh she must have been no good, but he loves me and he will never do it to me" HA! Right... A cheater is a cheater baby, it doesn't matter to him at all, I am childish and naive like that too sometimes, but I am intelligent enough to know certain things, and I have my eyes opened. I always consider the possibility, and I never think I am better than anyone else... If you do, it might return to you trifold. In God's eyes, I want to be OK, I am just Me kitty Kat...lol, I try to be as good as I can, that's what matters.
Bad experiences do change you, harden you, no matter how hard you try to stay unencumbered, I never want to hurt anyone, not even their feelings... unless they push and push too far, I am very patient. I was always like that, and all I get my whole life is people who take my nature for granted, Well finaly...I am getting sick of it, after 34 yrs...lol, but I really am. Just curious why then guys wonder "why women are such .iches" if they are the ones who repeatedly hurt us?
:) not one of us deserves this kind of betrayal. Hugs and Kisses. Kat
I am just very hurt. But I hope it will pass soon.
Kat, Hey! I just wanted to say this, if you want to get over someone, grab some girlfriends go out and party! It really helps. Also try to stay busy, go buy some new clothes, makeup anything that makes you feel good. Last but not least, be honest with yourself. Ask yourself, is this man the one I am going to be with forever, do it honestly,reassure yourself that there is someone there, he is thinking about you,but he does'nt know who you are, vice versa.
NYCHICK write: infidelity means lying,, its work to cheat.. how do u accept someone that lied and betrayed u? will the relationship ever be the same.. i say he cheats..pack his stuff and let him stay there.. there was no mistakes or justification for someone to lie to your face.. bye bye cheater
Agree with you there is no excuse or justification, you commit in a relationship you be honest till the last day you mutually agree the union won't work and it is best to part ways. Then do whatever you want, it is your freedom.
Sorry to hear things didn't work out, you must have had an "internet addict". I'd not heard this term before, but was told about it & apparently it's a case of hoping something better will come along. What a load of crap, he's just friends and they're a substitution because he's lonely & missing you.
You're an attractive woman & certainly don't need to waste time with a man who doesn't want to be with you and only you.
Once I've found someone I'm interested in, I stop looking period! I'm a one man woman and want a one woman man. If they're not sure, then why start up a relationship with someone who clearly wants commitment?
I too believe there is that one good man out there who feels the same way I do, keep your chin up & keep looking Kat.
Jeez Gem... he was an azzz. I had been seeing this guy from Egypt recently. I used to stay with him at his house alot until I could tell something was wrong. His phone would ring at his house always in the middle of the night. He would never answer it. After not answering, his cell would ring. he told me it was either Amex or the Discovery card people trying to get him to raise his card limit. I was like come on!! And he would say "for real Tasha". "You know how much I care about you". I caught him though. I went by his house one night after I got off work ,unexpected, which is something I would never do,but did lol He was'nt home. I called his cell phone. I asked him what he was up to, he said nothing what about you? I said oh, just driving home, where are you? He answered pulling up at my house. I said oh that's funny, I am sitting outside your house and I see 4 white cars and none of them are a Lexus. Him being an azzz said "what? you lied to me Tasha"! "I thought you were on your way home". Anyhow, I told him I did'nt want to see him anymore.That was the end of that. Anyhow, (SOME) not all, lol can come up with some stuff. I guess we are supposed to believe it...
Oh Cutiepie,that sucks... My second husband alway's cheated on me.I never got lucky enough to get close to any of the women. I found out that he had been seeing my neighbor. I did tell her that if she came outside, that I would beat the brakes off of her. She ratted me out to the office manager to the complex. A couple of days later I got an eviction notice. Anyhow the woman did'nt come home until after I moved a few weeks later. But the best revenge of all was after I accepted the fact that he would never fully love me and finished all of my crying, I woke up like a zombie. I had no emotion, no feeling, it was just like I had ice in my veins. Now that I do not want him anymore, he constantly tells me how much he wants another chance, and how much he misses me. I will never go back. He does'nt deserve me. The only good thing I got out of that was my son...
GeminiDi write: In my marriage, by the time my ex was cheating, I really didn't care. In fact, the girls and I got quite a big laugh at his ridiculous excuses for being gone from home. One Saturday, he had been gone all day to take the brand new, top-of-the-line riding lawn mower to the repair shop to get it "fixed." Late that evening, my 7-year-old son asked where his dad was. After telling him, he said, "But Mother, the lawn mower is in the back yard." HE FORGOT TO TAKE IT WITH HIM! LOL A few weeks later, he spent an entire Saturday to get a new muffler installed on my car. He had lots of details, the name of the shop, the lengthy time required to get the job done, etc. Two weeks later, the muffler fell off in the middle of the road!!! We picked it up, put it in the trunk, and went indignantly directly to the shop! After listening to me rant about shoddy workmanship, the muffler guy said, "Ma'am, I've never seen this car before." Since I was led to believe that it was an all-day job, I was reluctant to get it fixed at the time (I had three kids in the car, after all!); however, once he informed me that it could be done in 30 minutes, I allowed him to proceed!!!
As I said, by this time, with the deterioration of a marriage in which only one of us was involved, it didn't even matter to me that he was cheating. What DID HURT was that EVERYONE IN TOWN KNEW BEFORE I DID!!! That was humiliating.
Now, with my ex-b/f, it was totally different. He thought that it was ok to cheat as long as it was with his ex. I was devasted and spent two years trying to get him to realize that his "friendship" with her was detrimental to our relationship. I never succeeded, so I ended it.
Do I think it's ok to cheat? Absolutely not! Are people human and make mistakes? Yes. So I think each case is different, but I can't imagine that I would FORGIVE OR FORGET again.
I believe in an honest, open relationship. If someone wants someone else besides me -- and only me -- then he needs to leave me alone! It's only fair.
There's my stance. I dislike lying, cheating, half-truths, anything deceitful in any form.
You are right Gem, ridiculous excuses,excess drinking to drown their guilt.
I can forgive a person for cheating but never hop in bed again..I feel very filthy just to lie beside them in bed..I forgave my ex but when it came for kissing I could barely do it after I knew what type of person she was...for sex I couldn't do it anymore.
It will always be in the back of your mind what he or she is...you will always have this distrust of them regardless of your good intention.
My old buddy of 28 years got the same result as me and he said it was always in the back of his mind when he tried to reconcile with her after 8 years of divorce.
I would not think like this of a new lady in my life as she has no history and I can't base her on my ex and I would not try neither. I would accept her as a clean bill of health.
infidelity means lying,, its work to cheat.. how do u accept someone that lied and betrayed u? will the relationship ever be the same.. i say he cheats..pack his stuff and let him stay there.. there was no mistakes or justification for someone to lie to your face.. bye bye cheater
cutiepie01 write: so forgive? nope! i think if a person feels they need or want to cheat, then they should end the relationship they are in first.
I do feel for you, cutiepie, and applaud your "final answer", but why is it you beat her up rather than placing the blame on your man? Is he not the one who really cheated on you?
This is typical of infidelity - from both genders - it's easier to blame the other woman/man than to lie the blame where it really belongs: with the one who cheated, not the other person who happened to get tangled in another's deceit.
I can totally sympathize, it wreaks havoc with your heart when confronted with infidelity, and yes anger is pretty much the first emotion to show up, but I agree with Redhead on who to direct your anger at.
I never really had anger for the many women my late husband had his affairs with, I always directed it to him, I felt he was the one who owed me something, not the ladies.
I did wonder why they'd choose to get involved with a married man, but with the sheer number involved, I realized I was in the minority.
Two of the ladies called the day of his funeral asking if it would be okay to attend. I told them calmly no, I didn't want them there, my family didn't want them there, nor did his family. I wondered if they had any brains at all at this point, but quickly answered my own question. Both did have the good sense not to show.
Absolutely nothing really surprises me anymore when it comes to what people do!
cutiepie01 write: I was supposed to meet my husband of 3 months at a motel(when i was 19). when i got there he had hidden his motorcycle but i had already called the motel for the room number earlier. when i knocked on the door, i heard a female say "just a minute"! it sounded like a freight train in my head. he looked out the window with the curtains pulled tight around his head and i threatened to bash the window in. he finally opened the door and she hid behind the bathroom door. i went in and smashed her with the door a few times and knocked her down in the shower. then i pulled her up and made her stand and watch while i beat him to a pulp. i told her never to get close to my husband again and i let her leave. as she was walking out the door she said jimmy i didnt know you had these kinds of problems. so in one punch i flattened her to the ground. i opened the door and there stood her gf, i picked her up by her hair and threw her out the door and warned her that she doesnt know what trouble is. i beleived him when he said nothing happened and 6 months later caught him cheating with someone else (his brother narked him out) and i packed up my baby and 2 weeks of clothes for us and never returned. i never saw him again and divorced him 20 years later. i guess i thought i wasnt capable of making a good choice in a mate and never remarried. but i think i may be able to make a better informed decision now 26 years later. so forgive? nope! i think if a person feels they need or want to cheat, then they should end the relationship they are in first.
After we get married remind me never to make you mad.
He deserved a good beating. Glad you were able to h_andle it yourself.
Ready502 ... truly a sad story, and I'm glad you have overcome and ready to go forward.
The two things you've learned...I agree never to ask 'why' and never state 'things can't get any worse', because that is like taunting the Almighty...and things will inevitably get worse! Unfortunately, not everyone is able to take and deal with more. But you are a strong person. And like me, I think whatever curve balls life may throw at me or you, we can and will deal with them effectively and efficiently. Good luck to you!
Hi Sharp1 and thank you!
I'm a big believer in what you think about you bring about, and am therefore very careful about what thoughts I project out into the universe, took me a while to figure this out, but fortunately I did.
I always knew I was an extremely strong person, but after going through this mess, I realized if I haven't cracked up yet, I probably never will. That's an invaluable lesson to learn about yourself! I remind myself of it often.
A few days before my husband died, we were having a conversation about how bizzare our lives had become and I thanked him for showing me how strong I was. He thought this odd that I'd be thanking him, but it felt perfectly natural to me and I was glad to have been able to share that with him.
Friends and family were absolutely outstanding in their support saying they were amazed at how much dignity and integrity I displayed throughout the continuously changing saga & I knew that's who I was & even when the chips were down, it felt right to remain that way. I've been told so many times that I should write a book about it, my life had become a living soap opera, who knows ... maybe one day I will.
Too funny and so true. Let's add to that "just getting a bj isn't cheating either"!
Redhead, right on! I hope my ex-boyfriend realizes this is the REAL reason we broke up: I knew what he really meant when he said "I'm not ready to give up my bachelor lifestyle." Bachelor lifestyle basically meant BJs (or whatever) while he was out of town. And I resented the h*ll out of being held to a moral standard he was unwilling to live up to himself. So I said sorry-Charlie, time for me to move on and enjoy my own "bachelorette lifestyle," BITE ME, PHBBBBBLLLLLLT! I loved him dearly, but clearly the relationship was doomed.
Being slightly clairvoyant, I've never had the luxury of oblivion, so I know I need to either find myself a true-blue-faithful type, or consent to an "open" relationship with a man willing to accept the consequences of living without double standards.
That, or I'll just stay home and pet my cats. Not such a bad life, really, since animals will never betray you.
I'm a "knower' too and understand that sometimes wishing you didn't know some things, but overall it is better than living in oblivion.
Based on your comments (here and other forums), you don't seem the type to accept the open relationship deal. Pets are good for the soul anyway. I know there are faithful men out there and we will know him when we meet him.
So for me, no I would never forgive infidelity again, the cost is too high. I believe if you're in a committed relationship, you owe it to each other out of sheer respect to terminate one relationship before starting another.
What a heart-breaking story! I'm so sorry. And amen to the above statement!
Y_es my heart was definitely broken, but it's mended now & I'm ready to give it another try, a little older & a lot wiser.
I believe everything happens for a reason, as it should & life definitely throws curveballs, but you've got to pick yourself up ... dust yourself off ... and start all over again.
Two things I learned from this, one is to stop asking WHY because there never is one definitive answer and it's a question you'll probably never have an answer to and two, I've stopped saying "it can't get any worse or what else will happen or I can't take any more" because inevitably, life comes along to show you that you can take more.
Infidelity sucks! There are no real winners, everyone involved gets hurt & the grass is not greener on the other side.
My late husband had an affair 5 or 6 yrs. into our relationship, treated me badly & was just looking for a fight so he could go out. While this was happening he told me I didn't like sex, it was just a mechanical act to appease him, I was frigid, etc. This got me to wondering seeing as he was my first & only sexual partner & an opportunity arose for me to have a sex only affair, no going out, just plain old sex. I was so frustrated that I went for it. It was the best sex I'd ever had, I did things I was never comfortable doing with my husband, it was very freeing & good to know that in fact, I had a great sex drive. Although I suspected my husband was cheating, I couldn't stop feeling bad about myself cheating, & quite quickly ended it because I didn't feel good about myself.
Once we'd separated, we got together for a discussion, he confessed about his affair & I felt I should too, kind of wiping the slate clean, both of us starting equal. He was never bothered about my affair saying I hadn't let it impact our marriage, etc. I knew I'd have to forgive to move on, and did so never once throwing it back in his face & we'd both promised each other never to step out again. I was able to fully trust him again & knew for a fact, that I would never cheat again. This was 27 yrs. ago, I was 21, he was 25. I kept my part of the promise. He did not.
When we separated the 2nd time (22 yrs. later), it was just a mutual agreement that things were not working & we both agreed to a trial separation. Unfortunately we worked together running our own business & this proved most difficult, but I managed. About 2 mos. after separating, a girlfriend of mine told me my husband in a drunken stupor had confessed to her he'd had 9 affairs. I was furious & blown away. He'd been involved with someone I knew from our yacht club when we'd separated, so the mutual agreement worked well for him.
I was angry, hurt, embarrassed, every gambit of emotion, but was not about to walk away from 17 yrs. of a business I'd helped to build. My husband & I talked more in the 10 mos. we'd separated than in the 30 yrs. we'd been together. There was nothing left unsaid. In the end, his girlfriend dumped him after he attempted suicide for the 1st time & of course he begged me to give it another try. I loved him very much, he was my first & only love, but I knew I could never let him back into my heart. At this point, he was locked up for 5 days & diagnosed as bipolar (manic depressive) so I backed off on the anger & told him I'd be there as a friend to help him through this turmoil, but never again as his wife.
He was absolutely falling apart both mentally & physically & I fought hard to get him help, but he was too far gone & couldn't see his way clear to continue living & unfortunately took his own life.
I looked back on what had occurred in 10 mos. & realized I'd had a separation, found out about all the infidelities, went through a decimating Firestone tire recall 11 mos. after purchasing a franchise, numerous suicide attempts & to finally have it all conclude with him taking his life.
I've come to terms with the infidelities realizing much of it was related to his bipolar disorder, but it was initially the worst betrayal I'd ever experienced and devastating to my self esteem. I've done a lot of self work and have totally forgiven him and myself a long time ago, but out of this disaster also learned how strong I was to have survived this all & come out the other end.
So for me, no I would never forgive infidelity again, the cost is too high. I believe if you're in a committed relationship, you owe it to each other out of sheer respect to terminate one relationship before starting another. Health risks are also a huge concern, & again I feel no one has the right to put my health at risk without informing me.
thegoodlife2005 write: Wow. It's sad that so many of us, male and female, knows what this feels like?
Interesting also how the very definition of infidelity has been brought up. Many men do not consider "casual" sex with random women to be "cheating." They know WOMEN call it cheating and they'll pay lip service to reassure us that they think it's cheating too, but it's just one of those facts that these encounters don't "count" - -
2. anything that happens in Vegas
3. anything that happens while on a business trip
4. the "two TACAN rule" - - this is pilot terminology - - - TACAN refers to radar - - - anything that takes place two TACANS away from the home zip code doesn't "count" (this is why I don't date pilots)
5. Anything that happens while at sea (this is why I don't date sailors)
6. Anything that happens while in jail (good thing I don't date convicts!)
In general, if there is no emotion involved, sex is easy for men to engage in and just forget about, and as long as they keep it on the down-low we ladies never find out and everything is hunky dory.
(That is, unless the woman they're with are clairvoyant. Or really really smart. Or they one day managed to infiltrate the Boy's Club Treehouse and listen to their secrets)
Men who acknowledge that these things are cheating (and are TRULY faithful when committed) are exceedingly rare. The rest will never betray the Boy's Club Treehouse and just tell us ladies what we want to hear.
Too funny and so true. Let's add to that "just getting a bj isn't cheating either"!
Do any of you believe the saying "once a cheater ... always a cheater"? I'm on the fence on this one. I don't really know.
I do believe "once a cheater, always a cheater" add to that (and it seems I actually agree with Slomo's list!), once a liar, always a liar". It's either a characteristic that was always there or once they've done it and been forgiven, they're highly likely to believe it will work again.
There was never any cheating my marriage either. Simply an observation - and it does seem there's a lotta cheatin' going on. The trust (as rob said) is very difficult to recover. Try as we might (and everyone's tolerance level is different), it usually is simply a matter of time before the realization occurs that the trust cannot be re-gained and the cheated one moves on.