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Posted on Tue, Jul 18, 2006 18:57

ps bob.

Your mind is ever changing. One minute you want BPD sufferers locked up and the keys thrown away and now your saying you want to help.

make your mind up as you cant have it both ways.



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Posted on Tue, Jul 18, 2006 18:54

74% actually in females left untreated bob.

for someone who knows so much about BPD and knows so many shrinks, they would frown upon you if they thought you had made comments like you did on locking BPD sufferers up and throwing away the keys as thats a mockery of all that hard work shrinks do.
One rule for you eh and another for those who are not in the same advantaged life you have eh!

And if you know so many shrinks then they must be rubish for it to take you 2 years to get sorted out so either they were bad at their job or you were a difficult case.

and bob, i do know plenty about BPD i assure you ;-)

and we differ in our opinions on how we should treat human beings and i dont believe in judging others when your in no position to do so as you also suffered that illness and made those around you suffer also.

To not have compassion is an unattractive quality in any person.



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Posted on Tue, Jul 18, 2006 17:37

Teresa, Do not try to tell me of my "mistakes" with my sister. I have lived with her drama for many years and I take it very seriously. You seem to be yet another person who chooses to believe that one should expend all their compassion and energy to ride on this one person's rollercoaster of a life. Everyone makes a choice. If you choose to share the ride with them, that by no means makes you a better person than the one who does not. As you can see by many posters, they do try to be compassionate with people afflicted with this disorder. It does not cure the problem. It often feeds the cycle. People with this horrid disorder are masters of manipulation. I've seen it. I've lived it. Do not dare judge me because I choose not to ride the rollercoaster because she refuses to help herself. How long would you live with a man who abused you or associate with an alcoholic? The cycle is very similar.

At some point, we all have to be the master of our own lives. How many of these women in your statistics are choosing not to take medication, which by the way is a chemical imbalance, not event driven, to correct the problem? Many choose not to because it "inhibits" them? THEM being the key word. The world revolves around THEM - very little regard for the lives they impact by their behavior.
Do I have to live with the fact I do not have the relationship with this sister as I do with my other sisters? Yes. Do I know that someday she may commit suicide as so often threatened? Yes. But I stand by all my advice to those involved: Choice. Choose to stay or choose to disengage. There is no in-between with those unwilling to correct a problem which can be corrected. There is not guilt. I got over guilt with understanding I will not go blind if I masturbate. Just don't try to impose your perception of my position with your belief system.



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Posted on Tue, Jul 18, 2006 11:42

I beg to differ Theresa, your opinion is your opinion that you say is based on fact. So is mine. Let's just say we are both armchair quarterbacks. To say that 80% of untreated BPD suffers kill themselves is beyond absurd. I happen to know a lot of psychiatrists as friends of the family and in the family, and many of my opinions are based on real world experiences told to me by people who treat BPD for a living, along with my own experience and my reading of BPD. There are some excellent books out there.

You can present your information as you see fit, but I'm not buying everything you are selling. Some of what you say is definitely true, other things are not.

BPD is a very serious mental illness that impacts a large number of people in a hugely negative way. I can't contemplate what the economic toll of BPD is on society, I would support any effort to fund research to find treatments for it.



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Posted on Mon, Jul 17, 2006 17:37

Hi RRed

You have already made the mistake of not taking your sisters plight seriously because you see what she does as a game.

Did you know the suicide rate in females is so high that the therapists who give DBT therapy have to be treated themselves by their collegues during therapy because its so traumatic for them because anything they do could be the trigger that sets off the suicide whilst trying to find the underlying cause? and you can guarantee there is a cause.

Despite her behaviour, do you see this as a game if your sister became of one the high statistics?

Perhaps not!



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Posted on Mon, Jul 17, 2006 17:32

bob. your so not hard done by.

I would love to tell you a true story that might make you re think your dreadful attitude.

Unfortunatly for you, you will have to wait until my book comes out.

You have given out alot of innacurate information out on BPD and there is no way you have researched it.

I do not see you telling people that female sufferers have such a high suicide rate at 74% in untreated cases. And those treating them with DBT therapy have to have therapy themselves to ensure they dont do something detrimental that triggers off that persons suicide when finding out the cause. Nor do i see you telling anyone that most female BPD sufferers have been abused as children or faced a serious trauma that they often keep to themselves. Nor do i see you telling anyone that those females feel used when the man only sees the good side of sex in them and nothing else especially if they have been abused.
Nor do i see you telling anyone that war heros suffer from BPD.

You have not placed facts here and it worries me that you are giving out the wrong kind of information and creating a stigma to those who do not know about BPD and making them think the worst when it is not like that and making BPD sufferers as mental cases with nothing better to do that be nasty and disruptive.

It is not a game for BPD sufferers either and if they become one of the statistics of suicide, would it be percieved as a game then? perhaps not and i suggest that you research properly and stop basing your findings on your own angry opinions because you were hurt.

It takes 2 to tango and if she ran back to her ex then she clearly didnt see you as the better bet did she?

I dont mean this to be crass but anger manifests in different ways, yours is clearly to condemn the one that hurt you the most. But that comes with all relationship breakdowns, or should i say most. its human nature.



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Posted on Mon, Jul 17, 2006 17:12

The only thing you can do is set boundaries and walk away when they are broken. That is my saving grace. I walk away when she breaks the boundaries of appropriate behaviour, which she will not accept. Her ex lives with and tolerates her behaviour and doesn't stick to boundaries. So he is home base.

I think boundaries are supposed to be for the borderline to try and learn. but I think more importantly, boundaries are for the victims of BPD to protect themselves from further emotional trauma, Red. You have to say this is unacceptable, get out of my house and don't come back till you learn to behave yourself.

yes, red, I'm sure your sister attracted some great men. Under normal circumstances I'm an incredible partner for the right woman and was for my BPD GF. And she knows it. But she can't control herself.

Here is the kind of nonsense she writes that sucks me in...

"If it takes us months to build our relationship back....I'll wait. If
it takes us a year...two years...to get there...I'm in. Bottom line
is....I hope to marry you.....I love you."

She'll write me that and the next minute she's running back to her ex falsely blaming me. I can't imagine having a BPD in a good family, it would likely consume your conversations.



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Posted on Mon, Jul 17, 2006 16:54

One of my friends is a PhD shrink. She has a sister who is BPD, who just goes from one failed relationship to another, - always their fault of course.

My friend says there is really no help for her sister.

You just have to learn to recognize them and stay away.



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Posted on Mon, Jul 17, 2006 16:43

Red, I have studied BPD extensively, in an effort to understand it and respond appropriately myself. There is no way a decent person can act appropriately to the BPD condition because the things that happen defy all logic. For example, I listened to her for a whole week begging me to take her back, marry her, etc a year and a half ago. I defined a bunch of conditions (boundaries) for her conduct. I buckled and agreed New Years Eve afternoon, she came over, we made love for three or four hours then leaped out of bed saying she just couldn't leave her ex and I'm sure she went back to him to spend new years eve with. The BPD is an outstanding manipulator. A decent person basically goes into shock...you go from the fairy tale (marriage, true love, only you for I and I for you) to utter collapse of the relationship and future. Again and again.

Here's what I've been thru...thinking I'm going to be with the woman of my dreams for the rest of my life...and in a matter of minutes watching her run back to her ex. I've been thru this at least 20 times, sometimes more than once a week. Most people only go thru this once, or in the case of Elizabeth Taylor, several times in a lifetime. In the past two years alone I went thru it over 20 times. Heaven to Total Chaos and devastation.

Is it the sex? It's more than sex, it's total pure love. And you gaze into the eyes of heaven. it's that intense. The BPD offers ONE and only ONE genuine thing...raw, real emotions. She really feels what she feels...she wants to be with me for the rest of her life but only for that moment. If that makes sense. Yet, everything is a lie, and you never know what the truth is. Which makes counselling difficult and often impossible because they only tell the counsellors what they want them to hear or how they want the counsellor to think about them.



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Posted on Mon, Jul 17, 2006 16:15

Hi R red

Have you asked your sister her thoughts on the matter? Have you approached her and told her you want to research her on the net with strangers? and men?



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Posted on Mon, Jul 17, 2006 15:56

Hi Bob

Either way you had BPD and either way you was not great company when you suffered it to all those around you regardless of how you were prior to having it and after surviving it.

The point i am trying to make is this..

Your ex is not a freak of nature nor is she a bad person. She is clearly hurt and her inner self is probably suffering much more than you can imagine. She also does not have the support you had and you ought to be greatful for that because whilst your fine, she is not and her pain and suffering is much greater now because if you think her relationship with you hasnt affected her further, your sadly mistaken because she is likely to be more confused than ever. But this is not your problem.

You are not a freak of nature either nor a bad person but you are clearly very bitter towards her. Thats why you are here talking about it. Thats why you havent got over her.

I understand more than you realise and it is not down to any of us to judge your ex because none of us know her. It is not down to any of us to tell you to get rid of her either.

That is not our decision to make is it?



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Posted on Mon, Jul 17, 2006 15:04

bobsthename write:
Tereas, my behaviour has clearly been contributory to the chaos. The situation and chaos has been really simple...and chronic not only with me, but also those before me. While with her ex she will manipulate relentlessly the male victim to take her back, that she doesn't want to be with the ex because he is terrible and that the victim is the man she wants to spend the rest of her life with. The manipulation goes on and on until the victim succumbs...then once she has her victim under her thumb she then does a 180 right back to the ex applying the same moves on him...leaving her victim hanging - you wonder, what the heck just happened, I've never experienced anything like this...how can one go from heaven - a fairy tale - to hell at the drop of a hat. Then the whole process starts again...the victim, feeling like they have met their soul mate just drops is left buried for another day for the BPD to come back and use.

Sometimes they have multiple victims on the go. at one point she had three of us going that I know of.

Yet armed with all this information, she can craftily come back and manipulate her way back into most anyone's life. I joined a BPD group for male victims last year and the best outcome seems to be for the BPD to find new victims to focus on.

bob, I truly understand your situation. As I've said, I have watched one of my sisters in action playing the same game. Help me (us?) really understand this..Is it a matter of a great sex, the fact they need you so and the need to be needed, both, what? I just don't get it. This BPD sister has had relationships with some very good men. Men, who on the outside appear to be a fit for intelligent, stable women. It seems similiar to me with women who are abused and yet continue to return to the situation. It co-dependency.I just don't get it - even more so if there's not marriage and kids involved. I would just like to understnd from a man's view



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Posted on Mon, Jul 17, 2006 07:26

Theresa I don't go around hurting people, my life on this planet has been very beneficial to most everyone I touch. So it would be a loss to society for someone like me to be locked up. The BPD leaves nothing but destruction in it's path. Why would society want something like that wandering the streets?



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Posted on Mon, Jul 17, 2006 07:11

yes i offered her treatment, paid for counselling, I found a two year program that has pretty good success but she decided she would rather not do it. The counselling was a joke because she would just lie to the counsellor.

you make a lot of assumptions that aren't correct. i did not abuse her. my issue was reactive depression, reacting to her repetitive actions of infidelity followed by her coming back and telling me I'm prince charming and that now we can live happily ever after followed by her infidelity followed by ....

The most important thing to recognize is that she is not capable of having or even understanding what a relationship is and that she will never be faithful. she never has been and never will be. so who would want to be with someone like that or support someone like that?



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Posted on Sun, Jul 16, 2006 11:51

Hi Bob

you said this bobsthename

They should lock BPD's up and throw away the key...the economic and psychological cost to society from one of these mentall ill people is horendous.

-----------

That would mean that you need to also be put away and society ought to reject you also? because you too had an illness and like her, you got it from what someone else done to you. So why condemn her when you also had an illness for the same reasons? And you also abused those around you too. What makes you any different from her? it doesnt but luckily you had something she probably didnt have, understanding, compassion, support and love oh and money as you mentioned.
Id say she didnt get that same kind of support. Did you get her professional therapy like CBT or DBT with all that money you have?

Women go back to their abusers very often regardless of having BPD or not and thats a fact.



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Posted on Sun, Jul 16, 2006 08:56

Tereas, my behaviour has clearly been contributory to the chaos. The situation and chaos has been really simple...and chronic not only with me, but also those before me. While with her ex she will manipulate relentlessly the male victim to take her back, that she doesn't want to be with the ex because he is terrible and that the victim is the man she wants to spend the rest of her life with. The manipulation goes on and on until the victim succumbs...then once she has her victim under her thumb she then does a 180 right back to the ex applying the same moves on him...leaving her victim hanging - you wonder, what the heck just happened, I've never experienced anything like this...how can one go from heaven - a fairy tale - to hell at the drop of a hat. Then the whole process starts again...the victim, feeling like they have met their soul mate just drops is left buried for another day for the BPD to come back and use.

Sometimes they have multiple victims on the go. at one point she had three of us going that I know of.

Yet armed with all this information, she can craftily come back and manipulate her way back into most anyone's life. I joined a BPD group for male victims last year and the best outcome seems to be for the BPD to find new victims to focus on.



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Posted on Sun, Jul 16, 2006 08:41

Teresa, my readings of BPD (and I don't proclaim to be an expert in it, I read about it because i cared about my BPD), show it to be a genetic predisposition triggered by environment...if the environmental factors don't come into play they won't be BPD. more often than not, it involves sexual abuse, although in my case I don't believe she was...but one will never know the truth because the truth to her is whatever she decides will impress the person she is talking to. as for me being the cause of the "BPD" partner...try explaining that to the people around the situations she created. I know her previous boyfriends. the first 44 years of my life on this planet didn't involve anything remotely close to the chaos brought on by this woman...on a scale of 1 to 10. you would not be able to convince even one of the 50 people involved in her twisted chaos that me, her ex (whose not her ex), her previous "relationships" were destructive because of the men involved. Furthermore, she will tell you that chaos is the only kind of relationship that she knows.

No one would want to be diagnosed with BPD because there isn't a cure or pill for it. Furthermore, it is a disease of arbitrary measurement by psychiatrists made in order to simply slot patients into a category for treatment. why it's called borderline is that treatments for other less arbitrary diseases didn't work on borderlines and the borderline was being slotted into other mental illnesses...baffling the medical community on why treatment wasn't working on some people.



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Posted on Sat, Jul 15, 2006 19:40

Wow Bob!

Sorry to hear about your nightmare! Sounds as though you need to cut this one loose to save yourself. It's amazing what we will put up with on a prolonged basis, and eventually can get sucked into the abyss. My late husband was bi-polar but was undiagnosed until just before his passing. I always knew something wasn't right, but after the diagnosis, realized why life had been so difficult.

We can't help who we fall in love with, but we can take a stand for ourselves and decide who to let into our lives. I wish you the best of luck in closing this hurtful chapter of your life and that the next woman will bring you happiness.

Take care.



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Posted on Sat, Jul 15, 2006 18:14

I do not understand the concept of branding every BPD as all being the same. Your misleading people into thinking its how you say it is just because your basing BPD on your own experience and evaluations.

At the end of the day i dont feel sorry for you, i feel sorry for the woman because you make excuses for your behaviour which was bad and maybe you need to consider that it is you that is doing something to her to make her respond the way she is because its a fact that BPD can be noticed when the sufferer is put into a situation that resembles something bad that gave her BPD in the first place. Sex is clearly something you want from her and are addicted too, has it occured to you she might feel used?

No one is born with BPD.
Perhaps you still have issues you are not addressing and laying all the blame on to that woman and perhaps your behaviour is not so straight forward as you are saying?

My memoir is due out in 07 and perhaps you should read it when its out. You might learn something.



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Posted on Sat, Jul 15, 2006 17:09

rapture, I was diagnosed with reactive depression from my BPD two years ago. I didn't know what was going on. My entire life was destroyed...fortunately I had incredibly strong family and friends to support me thru it and stick by me even when I was making horrible decisions. And I was wealthy enough to weather the storm which had huge financial repurcussions. The entire affair left huge scars on my soul. Even though I see her from time to time, I'm numb to it...I know if I find the right woman for me, I will be able to say no to her. So maybe there is some good in this, because I'm sure I will end up with one heck of an amazing woman when all is said and done.