Lots of people have said great things about this topic. I will just add this: I think it's a two way street. For a great relationship, men and women should give each other what they need. If the guy need to feel appreciated, valued, affirmed, encouraged, supported.. then he should have it. In return, if the woman needs to feel safe and protected, emotionally and financially, then he should give her that. Like someone said, it's a two way street.
I can hear your "Independent nature" in your words... LOVE IT!
Although I have never achieved "financial security" as it appears many/most? women in this forum have .... I have a "strong-willed and independent nature" that can't be rocked w/. It's there.. I call it as I see it.. and MANY men I have met have held issue w/ this!
So I guess it doesn't matter if a woman is of "average looks and successful financially"... or a "pretty girl they expect to keep her mouth shut".. Many men are intimidated by a woman who has achieved any level of independence!
I've thrown 3 inch stern lines off a 4' jump deck in 8' seas while backing up to a platform in the middle of the gulf just months ago, so I had food on the table.. (It was actually FUN.. but I admit... I was scared!) But if a 105lb woman can and will do a "man's job" to survive...I'd call that about as independent as it gets!
Nice to meet you! Don't work too hard on your 16 hour day... And may a man come your way who "APPRECIATES" and "EMBRACES" you for who you are!
Wanted to respond to a couple of posts I found interesting.. so we'll see if this goes through. (Last night even MM had difficlut time getting my post to sync in.. it messed up the page for few hours! What a way to say HELLO to everyone! Kind of like being new on the ball field and throwing the ball over the fence! LOL)
You are correct for sure... a MAJOR bottom line is "acceptance" of who your partner is and the "willingness" to allow them to grow in their own rights. Sounds like you didn't have this. I'm sure in the long run.. you will be better off.. (as we all are after divorces..) BUT.. doesn't it make it any easier..
Oddly you say "What attracted him to me in the beginning".... he didn't like in the end... My girlfriend always told me.. "Whatever brings you together in the beginning will pull you apart in the end!" NOW I understand what she meant! (slow learner.... ADHD? LOL)
Okay... Guess I am coming in a little late in the game.. but being 44 and considered a woman w/ above average looks.. the topic caught my attention...
I can't recall verbatim what was stated by the author.. or anyone else for that matter.. (and didn't try to figure out how to work highlighter thingie...) But I'll give it a go here!
This encompasses MANY avenues but the one that hits me hardest from what I have experienced:
Men are “visual” creatures and beautiful women are often “idolized” (as one person related) and a man will want to “use her” as a trophy or souvenir.. BUT, at the end of the day.. he is insincere in his intentions as he was only using her to boost his ego. He “thinks” she is “all that” and a bag of chips and when he realizes she suffers from more insecurity than an “average” looking woman because THE WORLD SETS THE BAR.. NOT THE BEAUTIFUL WOMAN.. therefore, she is constantly trying to achieve “better” because that is what is EXPECTED of her ( esp.. the older and more wrinkles that surmount on her aging body and face…) Then the man considers her “emotional high maintenance” as the author has stated.. and hauls out..
I have personally dealt with men who have told me.. “I thought you had it ALL together to look at you.” WELL GUESS WHAT? NOBODY has it ALL together in every category.. And if ANYONE thinks they do they need schooling in self-awareness. We All have our weaknesses.. and many beautiful women usually suffer from low self-esteem because the bar is simply set too high for us since we were small girls. Why do you think plastic surgery is so prominent? EVEN FOR TEENS!! Because women WANT to go under the knife? They do it because they “feel” they HAVE to in order to keep up w/ what MEN and SOCIETY DESIRE. So dannyspl… I would have to state for me.. I do not feel it is the BEAUTIFUL WOMAN who is seeking “higher than average expectations.” I think it is the men who these women have mistakenly dated in their “quest for love” that have not received the emotional support and guidance necessary and that has ruined it for both sides.. Hence… we have a lot of beautiful women and truly sincere nice guys out there who don’t see past their previous experiences.
Hi ALL.. I’m a new girl here! And YES!! I AM working on my insecurities! :)
Men can be very intimidated by women with looks and independence. They get very insecure and feel challenged. Most of my male friends tells me men want to feel needed, in my opinion I don't 'need' a man as I can manage on my own. However I would like someone who is safe and secure within themselves that can respect that I am not needy and like my indepencence. Very hard to find that person.
Gypsey if men are intimidated it is because she has high expectations she wears on her forehead like a billboard.
High maintenance is financial, emotional or physical. Men wonder if it is worth the effort. She needs to show him she is worth the effort no matter how she sees herself. Instead she expects him to play the game by doing most of the work and she does very little if at all. He will put out effort to a point then his tolerance is reached and he moves on. Yes he feels challenged. Not neccessary if she really wants to make him feel valued.
Making him feel valued
and affirmed will keep him around
Men don't feel needed they want to feel valued. She can gain everything she wants but if he is not emotionally stimulated by her, he will leave eventually. Many said they did for that reason in my small groups for divorce recovery.
He is safe and secure because she is putting out just as much as he is. They both work at serving eachother hence the true chemistry. The magic is there. It can't be a one way street.
Each MUST give up some of their independence if they expect the relationship to grow. Sometimes it's the independence that stops the growth.
Part of the problem I've found is that women will not date below their own socioeconomic status (I really don't think it means as much to men). There are some women I've seen here who obviously enjoy the millionaire's lifestyle, whether they find the millionaire companion to go with it or not. "Green Acres" does not happen in real life.
If I ever came into or made a million, the freedom to spend my time the way I want to means a lot more than any material thing I could buy with it. I don't know how desirable a "millionaire" that would make me.
Interesting posts there. I'm 49 and getting a guy my own age is harder than you think. All these guys from 45 to 65 want a lady under 35. How the hell they really think at 60 they are going to pull a gorgeous young 35 yr old with any brains... Can anyone tell me how they are going to get if they arent going to pay. The young ones want to have it all and have it now. I work 16hour days, can look after myself, work hard, play hard,....bla bla...of average looks and have a great sense of humour...and so far no interest at all. So whats wrong....49 and got a few wrinkles, independant, say it how it is...guys cant handle independant women, but at the same time I get called a gold digger for looking here...go figure...I dont want your money....I just dont want a dead beat and thats what you meet if you head to clubs and bars....sleeze...so shoot me for being open and for being me.
Having high expectations is fine, I even have mine.
The big deal with guys ladies is they can see them cause you expose them so clearly. Not a good idea. Own them but hide them. Once a guy sees them you can not control the many ways guys can react. But since you have the POWER as a woman you can use it to your advantage. Many women use it to their advantage every day with men. Talk to your mentors in your life and find out how they use their power over men. Let's face it men simply do not have a chance with a woman with her identified power. Research it, Study it and use it to gain advantage over other women to find that special guy.
BTW psst your chances of finding anyone who will fit your needs here on MM is very remote. Also not a good idea.
This could be applied to older men, too:
It's kind of like when you're young, at the carnival, and your mother gives you $5, along with the advice not to blow it all on the first fun you see. You walk around the carnival, wanting to see all there is, while the barkers are trying everything they can to lure you and your money in. After awhile, all the attention becomes pretty empowering - they see that $5 in your hand. It becomes an ego boost to have everybody calling to you.
The question: what do you do when mother tells you it's time to go home, and you still have that $5? Was there really any fun worth spending some $ on, or were you smarter holding on to the money? Do you feel you cheated yourself, or just bank the cash?
I would be interested in what the last 3 guys in your life thought and whether they felt like a king while with you. If they did I hope they treated you as well if not better. My point is if you truly treated them like a king, why did you end it or why did they end it? I would love to feel valued or treated like a King. Because I know I will be doing much to counter that and more if I could. And if I were treated like a king or how I state in earlier posts here, I would fight to keep her.
I see this topic has stirred a lot of interest and views so I want add a couple of reasons why beautiful women are still single.
Askmen has made some points I agree with about women.
This was originality written about why women sleep around more today than they did 30 years ago. I would also add this may very well be a few reasons why they are still single. Especially beautiful women. Some points other than the most common one here and that is high expectations.
1- No Time For A Relationship
Anyone who's ever been in a long-term relationship knows that keeping it in working order often takes a high level of dedication and willingness on the part of both parties involved. Going out of your way to work through a difficult period in the relationship demands much more time and effort than just calling it quits.
This kind of devotion doesn't seem to be something that your average Gen-X woman has the time or patience for. She's probably too busy trying to get her career in high-gear and spending time with her friends to dedicate too much time and energy to a boyfriend.
For such women, the investment in time and sheer effort required for a serious relationship just isn't worth their while. They prefer keeping things casual and strictly for kicks, rather than having to deal with the potential inconvenience of a boyfriend.
2- Fear Of Commitment
They're scared of opening themselves up to a man, and making themselves vulnerable in the process. (sounds familiar with men)
Maybe they've been hurt in the past and believe that keeping it casual is a good way to avoid developing any real feelings for another person, which would create the possibility of them getting hurt again.
Aside from these I think most would agree here that the most common reason IS women's high expectations keep them single because they simply do not want to settle for anyone less.
unfortunately, I have been surrounded by a bunch of self centered, selfish men who think just for themselves or they become so complacent with the relationship that they are no longer conscientious about reciprocating. However, I am very hopeful that ther are a lot of men who are not like that, and look forward to finding my prince.
I have high expectations of myself, so I allow myself to have high expectations of other people. If the people don't match my criteria, there's no problem...I just don't feel swept of my feet, I'm not impressed, there's no magic and I definitely don't fall in love with them.
I know many women who fall in love not with a guy, but with the possibility of being with someone. They create and invent their own magic. Now, I understand for you it's easier to be with a woman like that, you don't have to do anything, she does it for you: she idealizes you, she imagines you're her prince and she falls in love with a perfect guy from her imagination. But do you realize it's not you who she's in love with, it could be any guy?
So, if I'm alone, it's not because of my look, it's because of me being honest to myself and to others. My point is: it's not about BEAUTIFUL women being alone and the UGLY ones being married. It's about HONEST women preferring to stay alone until they really find love and about INSECURE women being to afraid of staying alone: So they just accept any guy who who is willing to be with them and they never complain or except more of them out of fear he could go away. It's takes courage and guts to choose to stay alone and not to “settle”. And even though I'm lonely sometimes, even though I'm scared sometimes, I still prefer to stay single then to have just any guy sleeping next to me. But when I'm with someone he knows he's the best, because I picked him out of the thousands. This is what you get when you’re with demanding woman, you just know you're the king. Otherwise you just know she was lonely when you passed by.
This Gal has hit the Nail on the Head.!!!!!!!!!! You can call me a Bitch, but I have High Standards for Myself.... Therefore I have High Standards for YOU !!!
I was told once that someone wanted to go out with me, (but he was a Lush), and I said that I didn't do Drunks.... The guy asked me why that Man would have to change to go out with Me ?? I said he doesn't....... And I Don't Have to Change to go out with Him.
Beauty is only skin deep. If you are cold and hateful on the inside, that is what is going to radiate out. A lot of guy's want Arm Candy, and that is Exactly what they get, something that Looks Good, but it ain't worth opening.....
Probably because because beautiful people have more choices and so it takes more time to pick amongst them and settle on just one...if at all.
Most people, not just attractive ones, want mates who are at least 40% better than themselves in a variety of ways.
But I will say that in my personal experience, its not attractive people who are single except for the ones who think they are too good for everyone. In fact, from my observations a lot of attractive people seem to have no issues dating people who aren't as attractive as themselves. I think this is because these individuals don't really have anything to prove to the world, as they are already attractive. How many times have you seen an uber hot man/woman with an average mate and wonder what they saw in them?
Meanwhile, its unattractive people looks or personality wise, who seem to have the most trouble finding mates because they overshoot what they can get in a mate or wish to "date above their means". These individuals are often quite shallow in their own right and need the best looking trophy mates possible to prove to the world that they can indeed snag a good looking person, or to make up for not being able to take the Homecoming King/Queen to the prom in high school. (eyeroll)
Unfortunately, many of these types of people suffer from low self-esteem and thus always need to validate their worth through the looks of their partners. And when they can't find someone far above their level to put up with them, they turn bitter against everybody...thus making them even MORE unattractive. Vicious cycle, eh?
Women who prefer to be in a long lasting relationship with a man should
1 Find a man who brings out the best in you
2 Find a man who values, appreciates, acknowledges,supports and affirms you often
3 Find a man whom you do not desire to change or mold to your expectations but has his own way of meeting them.
4 Find a man who can't wait to be involved with you and do the things you enjoy or need help with.
5 Find a man who understands the power you hold for just being a woman in his presence.
6 Find a man who will never raise his voice or lay a finger on you for any reason.
7 Find a man who does not do vices...Or feels he has a private life you can not be a part of.
8 Find a man who can cry in front of you and be able to handle his insecurities and vulnerabilities while keeping you in awe and on a pedistal to be cherished.
Try talking to a man who has been in a longterm relationship or marraige and see if he falls under these areas. He most likely will.