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Is it really important to understand different cultures?
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Posted on Wed, May 25, 2005 07:39

Bonnie,
"
I don't think Hinduism preaches self-sacrifice as in 'becoming a human bomb'."

________________________________________

The human bomb did not originate with the arabs, and I think it was a group in India that introduced it to the world.
Hindu, I think, but not sure.



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Posted on Wed, May 25, 2005 07:37

wwwww123 wrote:
"So, are you concluding that communism and drugs are good for the people of those countries and that the US should do nothing? I would like an example of where communism or drugs have been good for the people."


Nope. It is not my opinion that communism and drugs are good for the people in those countries. It is my opinion that the good of the people in those countries is not the paramount reason for the US waging these wars. For instance, if we didn't have a drug problem here in the US, do you honestly think that the govt would give a hoot about the people in South America or get as involved in their politics?



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Posted on Wed, May 25, 2005 07:35

maayan
"Rule over Palestine, Iraq and Transjordan passed from the Turks to the British, and rule in Lebanon and Syria passed to the French. The peace treaty signed at Versailles in 1919 authorized these power grabs,"

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So you are saying that the British and French freed the Arab people from the Turks, and then turned control over to the various Arab tribes, including the Jewish tribe? Sounds like a good thing.



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Posted on Wed, May 25, 2005 07:15

Here is another piece of history.

The US drained many of its oil fields dry fighting wars for other countries. They probably would not have to buy oil from anyone if they were repaid all of the oil used for the tanks, planes, ships, other vehicles, manufacturing plants, ammunition, etc. that were used in the war efforts. No one has replaced this oil to date.


Further, there wouldn't be a middle east, Iran, Iraq, or Saudi if the Brits and US had not stopped Hitler in North Africa. He wanted those oil fields because he had none.



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Posted on Wed, May 25, 2005 07:09

Junglecat
"The Korean and Vietnam wars were fought as part of the US' ideological war against communism. The "skirmishes" in South America countries are related to the US' government war on drugs. The point being that the US may not be fighting these wars for pecuniary gain, but I am sure the welfare of the people in these countries is not the primary reason why we fight these wars either."

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So, are you concluding that communism and drugs are good for the people of those countries and that the US should do nothing? I would like an example of where communism or drugs have been good for the people.



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Posted on Tue, May 24, 2005 22:37

Well here is some history for you.
American Military Deaths and wounded in defense of of other countries.


World War I (1917?1918)3
Total servicemembers 4,734,991
Battle deaths 53,402
Other deaths in service 63,114
Nonmortal woundings 204,002
Living veterans fewer than 500

World War II (1940?1945)3
Total servicemembers 16,112,566
Battle deaths 291,557
Other deaths in service 113,842
Nonmortal woundings 671,846
Living veterans 4,762,0001

Korean War (1950?1953)
Total servicemembers 5,720,000
Serving in-theater 1,789,000
Battle deaths 33,741
Other deaths in service (theater) 2,827
Other deaths in service (nontheater) 17,730
Nonmortal woundings 103,284
Living veterans 3,734,0001

Vietnam War (1964?1975)
Total servicemembers 8,744,000
Serving in-theater 3,403,000
Battle deaths 47,410
Other deaths in service (theater) 10,789
Other deaths in service (nontheater) 32,000
Nonmortal woundings 153,303
Living veterans 8,295,0001

Gulf War (1990?1991)
Total servicemembers 2,183,000
Serving in-theater 665,476
Battle deaths 147
Other deaths in service (theater) 382
Other deaths in service (nontheater) 1,565
Nonmortal woundings 467
Living veterans 1,852,0001



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Posted on Tue, May 24, 2005 15:07

The US has helped solve many problems around the world but at the same time it has either caused some new problems or escalated old ones. I personally believe that the US is a great Nation and has used its power in a good way for the most part. But to suggest that the US fights most of these wars for unselfish reasons is to review history through rose-tinted lenses. For instance, there is evidence to suggest that America may not have gotten involved in WWII if not for the Pearl Harbor bombing. The Korean and Vietnam wars were fought as part of the US' ideological war against communism. The "skirmishes" in South America countries are related to the US' government war on drugs. The point being that the US may not be fighting these wars for pecuniary gain, but I am sure the welfare of the people in these countries is not the primary reason why we fight these wars either.



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Posted on Tue, May 24, 2005 11:52

maayan
"The American don't kill each other as a policy. Full Stop. However, the rest of the world are game."
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wwwww Well, here I am. lol


Sure maayan, the US are bad guys. We fought in WWI and WWII in order to control the coal from Germany and the fish from Japan. In Korea, we wanted their kimchie and in Vietnam their rice. Now Iraq oil, and who knows what in South America -poppies?. Sure, we just love to go all over the world stirring up trouble for fun.

Someday you need to think what the world map would look like without the US intervention and peacekeeping efforts.Who would own your country? Who would own Iraq, the whole middle east, and all of Europe? Which drug lord or communist tyrant would control South America? Look for motives. Crimes need motives. Don't tell me the US is stealing money when we are spending $80 billion per year in Iraq alone and $12 billion in Afghan. What other country has done so much for the world, given so many lives? How many men have we lost in WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and in more recent history. What did the US gain in rebuilding Europe, Japan, Afghan, Iraq, etc.

Study your history, not propaganda. You are too smart for propaganda and to smart to not understand what the US has unselfishly sacrificed for the benefit of the world. If the US has made a mistake here and there, so what, --it's trivial compared to the good they have done and lives they have saved. - And for so little thanks from the people they have helped.



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Posted on Tue, May 24, 2005 02:21

I remember hearing on the news that the Japanese govt had finally admitted to the atrocities they committed during WWII, and have added it to their academic curriculum.
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Don't think so Sharp..most of that part of the history is couched in v. obscure language that claim that they are the oppressed in a struggle for freedom and nationalism ( I read Japanese and their books)...giving figures on the numbers who died in the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombing..I visited the site of the bombing and there is a museum which displayed all the debris and remnants from the holocaust but nowhere did they mention the reason for the bombing..and no where did they even show the figures of the dead Asians who were the victims of their occupation..
In their literature of that era, we read stories of wives of the kamizake pilots telling their pain and there is one moving one about a woman whose husband was a human torpedo ..she wrote about slipping into the torpedo hold and tried to visualise his emotions in the last minutes of his life before he was fired off as a human companion guiding the torpedo.. ('Iron Fish' by Kono Taeko) ..read Mishima's stories on Patriotism, he was that sort of blind militant fanatic..nationalistic ideals taken to extreme is frightening ..for the Japanese , forgiveness and apology done en masse is a ritual , it is not a moral guilt issue..u see suicides by CEOs there often and there is a forest in Japan which is called 'suicide forest' everyday that town has a team whose job is to retrieve dead men who hang themselves on the trees the night before...self-annihilation is a form of ritualistic practice when a mission has failed.....the kamikaze pilots were bred and conditioned to think of themselves as the ultimate sacrifice , most of them were orphans brainwashed and conditioned to die for the extended family-country..not different from the human bomb terrorists of today.



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Posted on Mon, May 23, 2005 21:01

"THE PEOPLE IN THE US DO NOT KILL EACH OTHER BECAUSE OF RELIGION, AND WE DON'T LIKE PEOPLE WHO DO."

And maybe I should add, that we are willing to give you a quick ride to hell to meet your maker if you think terrorist acts and bombing the public will get you to (ha)heaven(ha).

lol



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Posted on Mon, May 23, 2005 16:38

Sharp "What happens when there are enough of them who have immigrated to Cda & US? Will they begin to carry their wars of a thousand years to our homelands?"

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I think 99.9 percent of the ones that come here want a peaceful life. The others will eventually be found out, but may cause some damage first. Tracking money transfers, etc. is getting easier, so it will not be so easy to move large sums as years ago. Small sums, yes.



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Posted on Mon, May 23, 2005 12:25

Here is the BIG PICTURE.

The US has people from all of the religions and regions in the world.

The US has hundreds of its own spin off sects (a religious denomination or followers of a philosopher or religious leader) . There are 100's of different denominations (sects) of Protestants, for instance.

So, say we have 500 different religions in the US, including all of those from east and the middle east.

We get along. Its not uncommon for people of one church to attend another church. Its very common for all of the sects to work together on community projects, especially in small towns.

The US separates the church and the state. Our founding fathers did that for us, -- thanks.

The bottom line:

THE PEOPLE IN THE US DO NOT KILL EACH OTHER BECAUSE OF RELIGION, AND WE DON'T LIKE PEOPLE WHO DO.

Religions can get along, and if they don't, they aren't very holy people, are they?



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Posted on Mon, May 23, 2005 12:05

Sharp:
"Isn't alot of this about their Oil and the revenues it brings in. Every country wants their cut in that profit?"

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No, its not all about oil at all, although some people like to think so. The US is spending out of pocket $80 billion per year trying to be a peacekeeper. They didn't buy one drop of Iraq oil before, and if they were given oil free for the next 50 years it would not pay back the $ cost to the US. Now, if I were to put a value on american lives or time lost by americans from their jobs and families - priceless.



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Posted on Mon, May 23, 2005 11:15

Bonnie: "why use such a lot of fire power to kill so many innocent lives to get to one man"

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Because it is not just one man. Saddam is history, but the battle continues. It is all about tribal power.



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Posted on Mon, May 23, 2005 11:07

Sharp,
I don't think Hinduism preaches self-sacrifice as in 'becoming a human bomb'..that is fanatic interpretation of a religion, has your friend been able to quote to you verse for verse to support what she said? Is she a Hindu high priestess?
All religion are vulnerable to misinterpretation and abuse in the wrong hands..just as there are different denomination of Christianity..from CAtholics to Baptists, there are all different denominations of Muslims, Buddhists, HIndus...it is dangerous that we do not make those fine distinctions because of our own ignorance..I must admit that even having done Shariah Law for my legal course, I can't claim to be an expert in the various shades of the interpretation of their Law..
a little learning is a dangerous thing...never underestimate the power of collective ignorance..



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Posted on Mon, May 23, 2005 10:42

My question is if the US CIA agents and the marines are such experts, why use such a lot of fire power to kill so many innocent lives to get to one man? Why not just send in your Mission Impossible Squad to assasinate the guy, less blood shed and less tax payers' money go to defence ?
If your intelligence is so good at gathering evidence of all the atrocities they commit why not gather info as to his whereabouts and take him in quietly?
At my university which has the best Arabic course, suddenly all over the u. there are flyers advertising for native British born Arab speakers to join the MI5 and MI6 and the Foreign service..it is laughable that all these years the intellligence depts. never bothered to recruit enough of men with Arabic language skills and now Arabic language dept in my U. is suddenly over-subscribed...the Western world has so much to catch up in learning the cultures and the languages of all its neighbors and countries which they know little about but would love to go on a missionary preach of their brand of democracy.. think ..historically the Jesuit priests spent years learning the languages of the natives before they set out on their mission to convert the 'heathens' to Christianity..how many of the American soldiers fighting in Iraq know the basics of Arabic language?..communication is the key to a lot of info, and alot of what goes in the minds of all races and all creed...



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Posted on Mon, May 23, 2005 10:27

Indoctrination is fanatic education, manipulation of the mind so deep that no one is aware of it when you are part of that blind commitment ..like the Japanese who to this day do not admit to the atrocities they have committed in their history..
BUt there is a danger that just because a group of Arabs /Iraqis commit the sort of heinous crime , we become prejudiced to the point that we become suspicious and prejudiced of all Arabs we encounter..typecasting is also just as dangerous as indoctrination...
I was on the underground oneday, an Arab man in his full costume snapped open his brief case and you could see everyone around him shuddered..and he nonchalantly took out his Arabic paper to read..I could not help but be amused by my own stupid prejudicial reaction..I thought if it was a bomb I would prefer to go instantly than be maimed for life..but why did I entertain such a prejudicial thought just because he is an Arab? I was ashamed of my own prejudice against this total stranger..that is my point...it is sure no fun being a Muslim or an Arab in such dire times...and I sure hate being an Arab going thru US immigration now, I m seen as guilty just for my looks...



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Posted on Mon, May 23, 2005 09:24

maayan "Why isn't Ameriacn forces looking for Osama bin Laden in Saudi Arabia? And why is American forces in Iraq when he's obviously got more support in Saudi Arabia (for you rightly said so,that many of the terrorists taking part in the 911 were Saudis)? And btw "Who is this war benefiting?" It's not the Iraqis definitely,"

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The Iraqis are definitely benefiting from the war, but not Saddam's tribe. The Kirds and the majority tribe (Shi'ite) in Iraq were murdered by Saddam's Ba'athists tribe. Now Saddam's old Ba'athists tribe are pi**ssed off because they can't dominate, take all of the oil money, and kill their fellow countrymen. Kurds, Shi'ite majority, Sunni Muslims. Two out of three were being killed by Saddam and his buddies, and that is not nice, do you think?


"Why isn't American forces looking for Osama bin Laden in Saudi Arabia"

Although bin Laden is Saudi, he isn't there and hasn't been for many years. The US would go anywhere to get him, and I assure you he will be caught eventually - or die. You have to cut the head of the snake off to stop the poison. Its too bad that bin Laden didn't start a car factory with his money. He might have created a few jobs.



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Posted on Mon, May 23, 2005 06:37

maayan,
welcome back..i guess your views got delayed ..as a moderate Muslim I like the fact that you are voicing a resonable voice that we are often deprived of hearing it from the 'horse's mouth' and I value your judgment and your courage to voice it on a site that is largely American. Read the views of Edward Said, a Palestinian Christian , professor of Comparative Lit. at columbia who has always been the advocate of the Palestinian cause but he unfortunately died last May ...in his memory he has set up a youth orchestra which is made up of Palestinian, Middle eastern and Jewish young musicians..a symbolical move to bring peace thru music..
I like your interpretation of Lennon's 'Imagine' ..perhaps one day when a world holocaust caused by a natural phenomenon would silent all unrest of the human kind , and in that imagined annihilated state, a synthetic peace and a new species will emerge..probably a less bigoted race borne out of deprivation and disaster is our only salvation..smacks of sci-fi..soylent green..Blade runner..perhaps a robotic artificial synthetic race..sans all memory of pain and struggle, sans all evil thoughts and selfish actions..maybe a synthetic heaven..lol..www. that is your only utopia..start tinkering on your robots to fill this world..



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Posted on Mon, May 23, 2005 02:52

Maayan " that have stolen my land"
_________________________________

Who are you speaking about? Its hard to answer such a statement without knowing.

But I will say, that most lands were stolen by the people who are currently sitting on them from someone else back in history. It may have been 20000 years ago, but few DNA/ genes are in the same location since the beginning of mankind.

Now if you could dig up some really old fossils withe the same DNA as yours, I will try my best to get your land back.

But, then if I found that the people who stole the land from you have the same DNA as you , I would really be confused wouldn't I. It would really be funny if I found that you are really the same people, just different religions, sort of like the Baptist and the Methodist in the US.

OMG, I just started a war in the US between the Methodist and the Baptist.

That is how foolish it really is.

wwwww



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