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Is it really important to understand different cultures?
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Posted on Tue, May 24, 2005 02:21

I remember hearing on the news that the Japanese govt had finally admitted to the atrocities they committed during WWII, and have added it to their academic curriculum.
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Don't think so Sharp..most of that part of the history is couched in v. obscure language that claim that they are the oppressed in a struggle for freedom and nationalism ( I read Japanese and their books)...giving figures on the numbers who died in the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombing..I visited the site of the bombing and there is a museum which displayed all the debris and remnants from the holocaust but nowhere did they mention the reason for the bombing..and no where did they even show the figures of the dead Asians who were the victims of their occupation..
In their literature of that era, we read stories of wives of the kamizake pilots telling their pain and there is one moving one about a woman whose husband was a human torpedo ..she wrote about slipping into the torpedo hold and tried to visualise his emotions in the last minutes of his life before he was fired off as a human companion guiding the torpedo.. ('Iron Fish' by Kono Taeko) ..read Mishima's stories on Patriotism, he was that sort of blind militant fanatic..nationalistic ideals taken to extreme is frightening ..for the Japanese , forgiveness and apology done en masse is a ritual , it is not a moral guilt issue..u see suicides by CEOs there often and there is a forest in Japan which is called 'suicide forest' everyday that town has a team whose job is to retrieve dead men who hang themselves on the trees the night before...self-annihilation is a form of ritualistic practice when a mission has failed.....the kamikaze pilots were bred and conditioned to think of themselves as the ultimate sacrifice , most of them were orphans brainwashed and conditioned to die for the extended family-country..not different from the human bomb terrorists of today.



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Posted on Mon, May 23, 2005 21:01

"THE PEOPLE IN THE US DO NOT KILL EACH OTHER BECAUSE OF RELIGION, AND WE DON'T LIKE PEOPLE WHO DO."

And maybe I should add, that we are willing to give you a quick ride to hell to meet your maker if you think terrorist acts and bombing the public will get you to (ha)heaven(ha).

lol



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Posted on Mon, May 23, 2005 17:33

Technology is more advanced in US than Canada unfortunately. Our govt is slow to invest in such technology...might be used to catch them! lol I'm referring to present situation with the Liberal Govt and Gomery Report.



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Posted on Mon, May 23, 2005 16:38

Sharp "What happens when there are enough of them who have immigrated to Cda & US? Will they begin to carry their wars of a thousand years to our homelands?"

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I think 99.9 percent of the ones that come here want a peaceful life. The others will eventually be found out, but may cause some damage first. Tracking money transfers, etc. is getting easier, so it will not be so easy to move large sums as years ago. Small sums, yes.



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Posted on Mon, May 23, 2005 13:21

People in Canada do not kill each other over Religion either 5w's...our countries are not alot different from each other with the exception our govt is practically a dictatorship, but Cda is able to run merrily along despite it's screwy govt leadership! lol

But in the US & Cda we have these religious groups that reside here enjoying our lifestyle and freedoms, etc. while sending money back to these terrorist factions that put guns in the hands of 12 yr olds. What happens when there are enough of them who have immigrated to Cda & US? Will they begin to carry their wars of a thousand years to our homelands?



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Posted on Mon, May 23, 2005 13:09

Bonnie I guess I wasn't clear. My friend is Hindu, but she was talking about Muslims. Now I have also heard this come out of the mouth of more than one Muslim! But I understand what you are saying, and it is getting me to remember more closely what one Muslim fellow was saying...Muslims believe in peace and peaceful ways of resolving issues, but it is extremists that take it beyond. As you say different factions and interpretations of Christianity and Cathlic faiths, etc. Does that make better sense?



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Posted on Mon, May 23, 2005 12:25

Here is the BIG PICTURE.

The US has people from all of the religions and regions in the world.

The US has hundreds of its own spin off sects (a religious denomination or followers of a philosopher or religious leader) . There are 100's of different denominations (sects) of Protestants, for instance.

So, say we have 500 different religions in the US, including all of those from east and the middle east.

We get along. Its not uncommon for people of one church to attend another church. Its very common for all of the sects to work together on community projects, especially in small towns.

The US separates the church and the state. Our founding fathers did that for us, -- thanks.

The bottom line:

THE PEOPLE IN THE US DO NOT KILL EACH OTHER BECAUSE OF RELIGION, AND WE DON'T LIKE PEOPLE WHO DO.

Religions can get along, and if they don't, they aren't very holy people, are they?



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Posted on Mon, May 23, 2005 12:05

Sharp:
"Isn't alot of this about their Oil and the revenues it brings in. Every country wants their cut in that profit?"

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No, its not all about oil at all, although some people like to think so. The US is spending out of pocket $80 billion per year trying to be a peacekeeper. They didn't buy one drop of Iraq oil before, and if they were given oil free for the next 50 years it would not pay back the $ cost to the US. Now, if I were to put a value on american lives or time lost by americans from their jobs and families - priceless.



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Posted on Mon, May 23, 2005 11:15

Bonnie: "why use such a lot of fire power to kill so many innocent lives to get to one man"

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Because it is not just one man. Saddam is history, but the battle continues. It is all about tribal power.



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Posted on Mon, May 23, 2005 11:07

Sharp,
I don't think Hinduism preaches self-sacrifice as in 'becoming a human bomb'..that is fanatic interpretation of a religion, has your friend been able to quote to you verse for verse to support what she said? Is she a Hindu high priestess?
All religion are vulnerable to misinterpretation and abuse in the wrong hands..just as there are different denomination of Christianity..from CAtholics to Baptists, there are all different denominations of Muslims, Buddhists, HIndus...it is dangerous that we do not make those fine distinctions because of our own ignorance..I must admit that even having done Shariah Law for my legal course, I can't claim to be an expert in the various shades of the interpretation of their Law..
a little learning is a dangerous thing...never underestimate the power of collective ignorance..



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Posted on Mon, May 23, 2005 10:56

Bonnie,
I am really enjoying reading your posts and agree with much of what you say, although must profess you are more knowledgeable than myself.

I believe very few if none speak Arabic or any language spoken in these countries. My Canadian niece is in the US Navy. She speaks English and French. She just returned in February from Kuwait along the Iraqi border, and in Sept. is scheduled to go to Iraq. She's a Medic, and I worry for her if she is sent there.



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Posted on Mon, May 23, 2005 10:48


Bonnie88 write:
Indoctrination is fanatic education, manipulation of the mind so deep that no one is aware of it when you are part of that blind commitment ..like the Japanese who to this day do not admit to the atrocities they have committed in their history..


BUt there is a danger that just because a group of Arabs /Iraqis commit the sort of heinous crime , we become prejudiced to the point that we become suspicious and prejudiced of all Arabs we encounter..typecasting is also just as dangerous as indoctrination...


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Correction...About 2 or 3 yrs ago, I remember hearing on the news that the Japanese govt had finally admitted to the atrocities they committed during WWII, and have added it to their academic curriculum. As for other historical atrocities committed I can not say.

And I completely agree with you about the dangers of stereotyping.



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Posted on Mon, May 23, 2005 10:42

My question is if the US CIA agents and the marines are such experts, why use such a lot of fire power to kill so many innocent lives to get to one man? Why not just send in your Mission Impossible Squad to assasinate the guy, less blood shed and less tax payers' money go to defence ?
If your intelligence is so good at gathering evidence of all the atrocities they commit why not gather info as to his whereabouts and take him in quietly?
At my university which has the best Arabic course, suddenly all over the u. there are flyers advertising for native British born Arab speakers to join the MI5 and MI6 and the Foreign service..it is laughable that all these years the intellligence depts. never bothered to recruit enough of men with Arabic language skills and now Arabic language dept in my U. is suddenly over-subscribed...the Western world has so much to catch up in learning the cultures and the languages of all its neighbors and countries which they know little about but would love to go on a missionary preach of their brand of democracy.. think ..historically the Jesuit priests spent years learning the languages of the natives before they set out on their mission to convert the 'heathens' to Christianity..how many of the American soldiers fighting in Iraq know the basics of Arabic language?..communication is the key to a lot of info, and alot of what goes in the minds of all races and all creed...



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Posted on Mon, May 23, 2005 10:27

Indoctrination is fanatic education, manipulation of the mind so deep that no one is aware of it when you are part of that blind commitment ..like the Japanese who to this day do not admit to the atrocities they have committed in their history..
BUt there is a danger that just because a group of Arabs /Iraqis commit the sort of heinous crime , we become prejudiced to the point that we become suspicious and prejudiced of all Arabs we encounter..typecasting is also just as dangerous as indoctrination...
I was on the underground oneday, an Arab man in his full costume snapped open his brief case and you could see everyone around him shuddered..and he nonchalantly took out his Arabic paper to read..I could not help but be amused by my own stupid prejudicial reaction..I thought if it was a bomb I would prefer to go instantly than be maimed for life..but why did I entertain such a prejudicial thought just because he is an Arab? I was ashamed of my own prejudice against this total stranger..that is my point...it is sure no fun being a Muslim or an Arab in such dire times...and I sure hate being an Arab going thru US immigration now, I m seen as guilty just for my looks...



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Posted on Mon, May 23, 2005 10:19

It's just too big of an issue 5w's. They don't care about life. They perceive themselves to be martyrs when they blow themselves up in car bombings killing so many others.

Referring to Bonnie's comment...I don't want them holding a grudge against the US or Canada for helping and disrupting our peace over here. I have grown up feeling safe in my country. I want that feeling to continue for my kids, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, etc.

Maybe we just need to let them work it out on their own. Isn't alot of this about their Oil and the revenues it brings in. Every country wants their cut in that profit?



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Posted on Mon, May 23, 2005 09:42

A little more history on Suddam Hussein. For years, Suddam was the right hand man of a democratic leader, & also was head of the military. Suddam fooled everyone to believing that he was a democrat, when in actual fact his idol was 'Stalin'. Prior to learning this, the US helped put Suddam in power. Once Suddam came into power he called a meeting of all his council. At the meeting, he had 17 men arrested on charges of being a traitor to Iraq, he had them taken into the dessert & they were never seen or heard from again. These 17 men had been close friends with Suddam Hussein for 20 yrs.
You remember he had his son-in-laws killed upon their return to Iraq from the UK, when he said he would not? Did you know that he also killed his grandsons? He did so, because they would have grownup to take revenge for their father's murders, and attempted to kill Suddam himself. Their culture demands such action.
Just thought I'd throw that bit of info in.



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Posted on Mon, May 23, 2005 09:24

maayan "Why isn't Ameriacn forces looking for Osama bin Laden in Saudi Arabia? And why is American forces in Iraq when he's obviously got more support in Saudi Arabia (for you rightly said so,that many of the terrorists taking part in the 911 were Saudis)? And btw "Who is this war benefiting?" It's not the Iraqis definitely,"

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The Iraqis are definitely benefiting from the war, but not Saddam's tribe. The Kirds and the majority tribe (Shi'ite) in Iraq were murdered by Saddam's Ba'athists tribe. Now Saddam's old Ba'athists tribe are pi**ssed off because they can't dominate, take all of the oil money, and kill their fellow countrymen. Kurds, Shi'ite majority, Sunni Muslims. Two out of three were being killed by Saddam and his buddies, and that is not nice, do you think?


"Why isn't American forces looking for Osama bin Laden in Saudi Arabia"

Although bin Laden is Saudi, he isn't there and hasn't been for many years. The US would go anywhere to get him, and I assure you he will be caught eventually - or die. You have to cut the head of the snake off to stop the poison. Its too bad that bin Laden didn't start a car factory with his money. He might have created a few jobs.



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Posted on Mon, May 23, 2005 08:32

Bonnie88
"if world leaders focus on working for those basic needs perhaps peoples of all nation would have less cause to die for fanatic causes.."
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Ahhh...but these people in Iraq, Iran, etc. do not see it as a fanatic cause. And they perceive themselves as martyrs when then commit suicide driving a car bomb that will kill and injure many people. A Hindu friend of mine explained to me that in their religion by doing such an act that is for their religion, they will go to heaven, and all sins committed by ancestors 7 yrs prior and 7 yrs in the future will be forgiven.
It is all done in the name of 'religion' a pretty powerful influence.



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Posted on Mon, May 23, 2005 08:09


wwwww123 write:
Bonnie:
"all nations and people need education,food, health and a better distribution of opportunities and wealth..if world leaders focus on working for those basic needs perhaps peoples of all nation would have less cause to die for fanatic causes."

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I disagree.

Most of the 9/11 terrorist were Saudi.

There are plenty of educational opportunities, money, jobs, etc. there. However, apparently very few want to work at the tough jobs or work much at all. They import people to do all major tasks. Now, why were the terrorist from Saudi? Could it be because they hate all people from all of the other religions in the world?


All of the wealthy Saudi family members have received post-secondary education abroad. Either in UK, or US, possibly Canada. They have travelled. They have exposure to our culture and way of life. They have enjoyed it while they are in our countries. No shortage of education. Yet they seem to harbor resentment deep down. A resentment they hide, until they are ready to strike!

The Oil & Gas industry is a prime example of importing professionals to world wide to do the work.



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Posted on Mon, May 23, 2005 06:37

maayan,
welcome back..i guess your views got delayed ..as a moderate Muslim I like the fact that you are voicing a resonable voice that we are often deprived of hearing it from the 'horse's mouth' and I value your judgment and your courage to voice it on a site that is largely American. Read the views of Edward Said, a Palestinian Christian , professor of Comparative Lit. at columbia who has always been the advocate of the Palestinian cause but he unfortunately died last May ...in his memory he has set up a youth orchestra which is made up of Palestinian, Middle eastern and Jewish young musicians..a symbolical move to bring peace thru music..
I like your interpretation of Lennon's 'Imagine' ..perhaps one day when a world holocaust caused by a natural phenomenon would silent all unrest of the human kind , and in that imagined annihilated state, a synthetic peace and a new species will emerge..probably a less bigoted race borne out of deprivation and disaster is our only salvation..smacks of sci-fi..soylent green..Blade runner..perhaps a robotic artificial synthetic race..sans all memory of pain and struggle, sans all evil thoughts and selfish actions..maybe a synthetic heaven..lol..www. that is your only utopia..start tinkering on your robots to fill this world..



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