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Posted on Wed, May 11, 2005 16:35

why we opened the doors of our mental institutions and hospitals in the 80's releasing so many people into society without skills or sufficient means to cope with the world. We are seeing the effects of that choice even today and I do not fully understand the decision...maybe someone can enlighten me
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I cannot enlighten you. I cannot understand it at all. In the big cities they are sleeping under freeway bridges, in alleys, woods in the park, etc. Some are alcoholics, some just out of it. No one cares except the people running shelters, and they cannot provide medicine.
wwwww



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Posted on Wed, May 11, 2005 13:01

"Or perhaps are we passionate enough to render the sort of help that these less fortunate people need? That is the ultimate test of our own humanity"
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"I must say that I completely agree. If we were all in their shoes for a day, we would change our minds and attitude."

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I agree with you both...the way a country treats it's weakest members speaks volumes about their strength...

This happened before I was old enough to be very politically aware?and I have heard some discussions concerning this... but what I do not understand is why we opened the doors of our mental institutions and hospitals in the 80's releasing so many people into society without skills or sufficient means to cope with the world. We are seeing the effects of that choice even today and I do not fully understand the decision...maybe someone can enlighten me...



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Posted on Wed, May 11, 2005 10:56

"Or perhaps are we passionate enough to render the sort of help that these less fortunate people need? That is the ultimate test of our own humanity"
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I must say that I completely agree. If we were all in their shoes for a day, we would change our minds and attitude.

wwwww



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Posted on Wed, May 11, 2005 03:50

I teach 4 kids under 12 who suffer from varying degrees of Dyslexia and dyspraxia..all are thriving with Chinese which is a language that is based on pictoral or hierographics..and therefore they are able to absorb and understand the new language which I teach in a fun and games format, completely spontaneous and organic, they tell mewhat they want to learn each session and we build our vocabulary from there...after less than 4 months they are able to recognise over 50 words, sing two nursery rhymes in Chinese and thoroughly enjoy the sessions..it has been a great learning curve for me as much as it is for them...

I think giving time and patience to people who need one-to -one help demands dedication and lots of love...do we love unconditionally enough to give unconditionally? Or perhaps are we passionate enough to render the sort of help that these less fortunate people need? That is the ultimate test of our own humanity.....



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Posted on Wed, May 11, 2005 02:34

"she is assuming a tremendous legal liability I think"

I don't see the libility. She did not prescribe, just make sure they took their medicine as prescribed. If that was a problem, there would be no nurses or aids or even sitters for the elderly. You may be a little gun-shy here.



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Posted on Wed, May 11, 2005 01:41

A friend of mine said that she sucessfully employed people with personality disorders by governing their medicine herself. She dispensed their medicine when they arrived at work, and when they left. This may be a solution for a few people, but many are in need. I agree that the government needs to get involved and do something. At present, the situtation is horrible, and hundreds of thousands of people are in serious trouble, and living horrible lives.

more ideas?



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Posted on Tue, May 10, 2005 21:51

"and many others who exhibit anti-productive behavior whether they can help it or not. "

And thus we have a problem. People with personality disorders have trouble getting work. They need work. Now what do we do, just shoot them?

Where I worked, we hired a blind PhD shrink, a blind mathmatician, people with no arms, or legs, and many other people with severe disabilities. All were productive. We hired very few with even mild personality disorders, however.

Any answers?

wwwww



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Posted on Tue, May 10, 2005 17:49

Does anyone know what happens to a job hunter if they disclose their personality disorders when they apply for a job. I would expect that there would be discrimination against the person, and also insurance problems because it is a pre-existing condition. I am sure it is against the law, but employers care less about the law usually.



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Posted on Tue, May 10, 2005 15:46

Hi Ed...You brought up the PET scan studies that did show a subtle difference in the alcoholic brain and a "normal" brain. I agree these studies do not prove a genetic cause for addiction. The genetic cause is in genetic/DNA studies that there is a genetic marker for addiction. I do not believe though that simply because the genetic factor exist that it exist as an excuse. I would think that I possible read my own issues into my genetic argument...I have MS... I had to have been born with a group of different genetic markers, be exposed to some unknown factor for the illness to express in my 30's...I could chose to allow it to own me or I could learn to control it...makes me sound mean but as a behaviorist it is difficult to accept any excuses for any illness/addiction that can be avoided or controlled with help.

And I agree that intense study of a subject such as music can cause similar brain difference, but as a naturalist I do not believe that a person can be "nurtured" beyond the natural, genetic talent that they were born with...but as you brought up that is the whole Nature vs. Nurture debate...and if we solve that here...we will be millionaires *lol*...



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Posted on Tue, May 10, 2005 13:52

Well...I understand what you are saying Cub but the differences in the addicted brain and the non-addicted are not necessarily where the evidence will be found. There is scientific proof that there is a genetic marker for addiction in certain individuals. Where the argument has been is if the marker exist in a person will it express if not exposed to a particular stimulus...ie. a person has the marker but does not participate in what is perceived addicted behavior...will they become addicted in some other fashion strictly because of the genetic factor exist in their genetic makeup. That answer is hotly contested.
There are studies that show difference in the addicted brain...I will have to look...but I know there is information on that...I will get it for you when I find it...sorry...but it might be something that would interest you...

Another issue within a family that is affected by addiction is the usual family emeshment...which is unhealthy all alone. As you brought up many times there is the enabling aspect of an addiction, which is common in an unhealthy family unit. This aspect can help perpetuate the addiction. I can only speculate on whether the addictive behavior affects the older child more than the younger. I would think that would be an individual experience...saying...the exposure, the strength and other factors would go into individuals choices. I do not think there would be an across the board answer for that...but I am not sure...I will check...I do know that the only child can go either way. In studies many times the child is the parent and when they are no longer in the home they themselves turn to the same addiction or some type of addictive behavior simply because that is the only "adult" coping skill they had modeled to them in childhood...but then again...it is an individual situation...but I will get information for you...



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Posted on Tue, May 10, 2005 10:39

Well Cub...I am a firm believer in genetics...I am so Freudian...*lol*.. I do believe that environment can be a key factor in the expression of a genetic pattern...simply because if everyone in the family drinks, does drugs, shops or any other habit to the extreme and you begin to partake in the addiction then the genetic patter begins to express...it only takes one drink, drug or any addictive behavior for some to be an addict.

But please understand, I do not think that that is an excuse for an addiction. In fact, it should be the opposite. If a person is aware of the genetic risk for any type of addiction then they should be very cautious in the choices they make. Now...that is not me making the person responsible for their genetic inheritance but responsible for the actions they take to prevent physical addictions.

I am all about personal responsibility, I am a behavorist in practice. But let me ask you this, if you feel that a person makes choices strictly based on environment then why is it that, in a family, some feel greater pressure to participate in the "family addiction" then others. Why would that be? and how do you see the family members who do not participate in the family issue? Do they have a greater will or is the pressure different for them?...or is it just all choices....



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Posted on Tue, May 10, 2005 10:16

Well WWWWW...I think what you are describing is closely related to the "Girls all get prettier at closing time" disorder in men...Which is related to "the really bad band guys are hot" disorder in women...tragic when it is at it's worst...but...that all falls under the disorder called "puberty"
...something some men and women get through...and some do not...but it is not life threating...but can be life changing...*lol*..;)



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Posted on Tue, May 10, 2005 00:51

"many times the psychological dependence can be more difficult to overcome than the physical aspect of an addiction simply because of the incrediable power of the mind"
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Now you have me sitting here thinking about women. Is it a psychological or physical additction. I decided it depends on how long it has been.
lol

Is that covered under the disorders somewhere?
lol
wwwww



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Posted on Mon, May 09, 2005 22:27

Hey Cub...What you are describing is the difference in a physiological addiction VS. a psychological need. Not everyone who is considered "addicted" has a true physiological reason for the addiction...it is strictly psychological dependence. I think that might be what you are describing in your view...but correct me if I am wrong...and many times the psychological dependence can be more difficult to overcome than the physical aspect of an addiction simply because of the incrediable power of the mind. You can go through "withdrawal" but the reprograming process of the mind can take a very, very long time..."New normals" do not come easy.



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Posted on Sat, May 07, 2005 12:27

My neighbor, who is bi-polar, says she would disappear on shopping sprees for three days. Her husband had no idea where she was or what she was doing.



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Posted on Sat, May 07, 2005 10:28

take a look at DMS IV u will see addiction classified as a disease-- some agree some disagree.. i agree



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Posted on Sat, May 07, 2005 10:06

Alcohol, Ecstasy (MDMA), and GHB, gamma hydroxybutyrate (date ra.pe drug), are common in the Houston area amoung the party teens and young adults. I didn't hear much about crack, cocaine,or heroin there. They seem to be afraid of those. Of the above, only alcohol is much of a problem in my area of Arkanas. It's funny that the drug of choice seems to go by regions of the US.

see

wwwww



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Posted on Sat, May 07, 2005 08:27

WWWW...I can tell you are in Arkansas...I am actually in Rogers for the summer working with a friend here and the Meth problem is unbelievable in this area...That was new to me...we still have problems with Heroin and cocaine where I usually am...there is some Meth...but not near what it is here...

And thank you Bonnie for the welcome...I am the type that always reads the post but never adds my input...but...this just happens to be a subject I do know something about. I do not think there has been an increase in eating disorders in the US but there is more awareness. What has been surprising is the upturn in males with eating disorders. I even see this working with players who feel the pressure to maintain a certain weight and it is distressing...especially when I know their athletic career will end when college is over...and they will not only have to live with the residual physical injuries they suffered on the field but also with the long term mental and physical effects of their various eating disorders...OH...don't get me going...I love coaches...but we do not always see eye to eye...But if someone wants some answers...I am smart enough to know I don't know them all but I can try to point them in the direction of helpful information...because of all of the garbage on the internet...

And Cub...your question is the loaded gun...No...drinking is not classified as a personality disorder. If a person is a true alcoholic then there is a proven physical condition associated with it. I think what the debate is if you chose to drink and you knew you could become addicted why did you do it? I may be way off base in what you were saying...*lol*...it will not be the first time...but genetics plays such a big part in who will become an alcoholic and it is so much like playing Russian Roulette...maybe Dad is an alcoholic...but son/daughter can drink a beer every once in a while...and never have a problem with it...but as you probably know...the closer the alcoh...



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Posted on Sat, May 07, 2005 01:52


wwwww123 write:
Drug use seems to be the biggest problem that I see, especially meth.

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Yes that is the biggest teen problem here esp at private boarding schools.
Just attended the funeral of an 18 year old boy , who was a t school with my son last month..death-drug overdose..such a sad waste of a brilliant life..



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Posted on Sat, May 07, 2005 01:34

Drug use seems to be the biggest problem that I see, especially meth.

wwwww



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