Years ago, i was having a conversation with a female friend about raising kids. She did not believe in spanking, i did. I explained that yes, take certain things they like away, talk to them but, sometimes, all that doesnt work and they need a butt busting. I am talking a spanking, not a beating. No, NEVER strike them in the face, their butt.She didnt understand that punishment isnt something you do to a child, it is something you do for a child, to respect authority and fear what you can do if they dont do as they are told - just like we are with God.I explained that God told solomon that he would be the smartest man that had ever lived or would ever live and since he had a lot to say about raising kids, seems to me one should listen to the smartest man ever.One thing he said was, "he that spares the rod, hates the child". The word hate here, in the hebrew, means, "love less". He is saying you dont love your child if you dont spank them.Another is, " a child left alone, brings shame upon his mother:" Boy, do we all see that when we go out to eat with those uncontrolled kids running around in a resturant like it was romper room.Still another, "he that spares the rod, spoils the child".I explained that each time i spanked my girls, i wanted to just cry but, had to look past the present and to the future, realizing they would be disrespectful, wild and maybe wind up in jail if i didnt.Mine? Both good christian wives and mothers that still say, "yes sir" to me to this day.Hers? One is dead and the other still at home at age 27, wont work, a drunk and not worth a darn for anything.
Their are other ways to deal with children. According to programs that deal with drugs, etc. a minute per age in timeout is appropriate and starts the breakdown of the cycle. Time outs are appropriate for any age. It is not about punishment as it is restructuring and reforming better habits. Optimism shown at any ages becomes a minds goals, so feed the mind, and water the opportunity to teach.
I had to use tough love, took several courses, and use to teach self awareness courses for 4 years for children, families, and psychologists.
Spanking is violent and fear is not the answer, LOVE is.
Woah, I had the opportunity to read upon some comments:
I am a single parent and I admit to being spanked as a child a few times that did make me fear my parents more than respect them;however, I admit to have spanked my children on their butt not something that I'm proud of to share with millions of people int this site but I remember that when I was hired as a child and youth worker this topic was an issue all the time in psychology they wanted to make us believe that "THEY" made a few studies where "they" found that it leads to long term bad behaviors - my sibling nor I have those problems, there is a difference where you'll give a spank and beat up a child with objects I disagree with that> there are many alternatives to spanking and I am very proud of myself to take my time when I am disappointed or angry at my children and think about alternatives, I have even spoken to them about when mommy is angry remind me about NO SPANKING-
its is not hard to take a breath or two and remember that those are your children and you do not want to hurt them***** its possible for us adults to work on that. I have *
stinkyuk write: Violence breeds violence i think that if you cannot bring up a child without laying your hands on them you dont deserve to have them. xxxxxx
Back in the old day's children used to be good, their parents would kick their butt if they got out of line. Now day's all of these kids are in trouble with the law,school,drugs and all kinds of other stuff because parents can't spank them. I have 3 son's and believe me, they have had their azz whipped. I think it's good especially when your 7 year old looks at someone and say's What the F+^k are you looking at you fat Azzz B$t&H while grocery shopping in WalMart... Yes I whipped him. He deserved it. By doing so I am teaching him it is wrong. What do you expect parents to do about that??? Should I have said "Oh sweet little Drew... why did you say that? Oh it's ok momma is'nt going to do a thing, just make sure not to say it again"...RIGHT! Give me a break people. Spare the Rod, Spoil the Child. If I did'nt spank him, it's a signal that---> momma does'nt care what I say or do. Anyways, I can take all of their games away, they will just sleep... Besides it's one thing to spank them for making noise or demolishing the house, which is crazy and another to spank them for disrespect and showing their azz... Oh and another thing... try paying 40 or 50 bucks for ONE of many xbox games , lot's of them ... let your child put them on the floor and scrub-uh-dub-dub because he is mad. How about stealing money out of your purse or wallet to sneak off to the store to buy toy's and candy, when they are SUPPOSED TO BE AT THE PARK! They don't respond to words anymore. Anyhow this is my little DREW with the mouth, happy as always...
Bonnie88 write: Thanks everyone for your thought provoking views on this subject which has touched a very relevant part of my life right now. I have a delinquent son who sure as hell need some serious spanking and caning if I was to have my way. I continue to ask where have I gone wrong, did I spare the rod and spoiled him when he was younger..and as a lawyer who understands the workings of a criminal mind esp one with a high IQ that harbors between the con-artist and the genius, I fear I may be raising a potential criminal in my own family if I don't take the hardline. BUt of course at the expense of losing any communication link with him which will also mark the end of the relationship..Love and hate are two sides of the same coin, whichever way it flips, it is yours to keep or lose..learning how not to lose it is the hardest lesson.. Parenting is all about guilt, we are constantly challenged with our own decisions and the consequences which we have to live with..and I am still flipping that coin and trying not to lose it...
You can control behavior with fear, but when that fear is gone, what guides the behavior then? Solid reasoning is the best way to guide a good mind. And there is some solid reasoning, to know that if you do , you get the sht kicked out of you at times. Because if there is no other down side, I'm all for .
Thanks everyone for your thought provoking views on this subject which has touched a very relevant part of my life right now.
I have a delinquent son who sure as hell need some serious spanking and caning if I was to have my way.
I continue to ask where have I gone wrong, did I spare the rod and spoiled him when he was younger..and as a lawyer who understands the workings of a criminal mind esp one with a high IQ that harbors between the con-artist and the genius, I fear I may be raising a potential criminal in my own family if I don't take the hardline. BUt of course at the expense of losing any communication link with him which will also mark the end of the relationship..Love and hate are two sides of the same coin, whichever way it flips, it is yours to keep or lose..learning how not to lose it is the hardest lesson..
Parenting is all about guilt, we are constantly challenged with our own decisions and the consequences which we have to live with..and I am still flipping that coin and trying not to lose it...
No man, woman, or child is allowed to abuse me verbally or physically. If all else fails, I will respond physically, with just enough force to do the job. Usually putting the person out the front door is usually enough.
As a result, I am rarely abused by the same person very many times - verbally or otherwise.
I have seen the results of a grown woman of two kids who believes she can get away with anything. She regularily beat on her ex-husband while they were married, has attacked her mother in law several times, and even her new husband and others. She is always slapping her child. Now tell me she should be allowed to get away with it. She has been reported to the police many times but has always been able to convience the police the other person started it. In fact, she has charged her mother-in-low (now ex-mother-in law) with assault even though she attacked (the last time) the mother in law while she was sitting in her car.
Do you think I would stand there and let such a person hit on me. Never.
Sick people, and sick kids often need more than a talking or time out. Some may need their azz beat raw, maybe even again and again. To allow them to grow up abusing people and getting away with it will probably turn them into murders or worse. Real abusers, (not child spankers), must be taught without question that they can't get away with it, and that includes children who are abusing adults.
These statements do not say that a child should ever be abused. I am just saying that kids can't be in control of the world and that you have to do whatever is necessary to make sure they are under control and not abusing others. For some, it takes very little, for some, -- a lot.
Now, does this sound like I am abusive. NOPE, I just won't let someone abuse me, verbally or physically or take their bad behavor out on me.
I was spanked as a child. My father had what was etched in the wood a "Board of Education". Boy was I taught well. I have nothing but love and respect for my father. I think I turned out ok. How about you, Gift? Were you spanked? How did you turn out?
Could it be that society has changed? Were we taught a new paradigm? Did a group of people convince the world that spanking was wrong? Think with an open mind and maybe you can see it a bit differently. I suspect we changed. I suspect society changed.
A wife, a dog, and a hickory nut tree, the more you beat them the better they be. Yeah, right.
Whipping a kid, or spanking a kid, is violence no matter how you look at it and the kid will grow up to be violent itself in all probabilty. It will think that violence is the way to settle a disagreement.
I saw a woman hit a child in a grocery store the other day. I told her if she hit the child again I was going to report her to management. I would have preferred to have slapped her face myself.
She said I'm his grandma and he is going to do what I say.
I just repeated to her that if she hit the child again I would report her to management.
I didn't see her hit the child again but I heard it cry out again so out of my sight I think she did.
There was a recent news story in a major city where over one thousand children under age 7 were suspended from school and 234 teachers resigned.Want to know how many kids that age were suspended when I went to school? ZERO.What is the difference? Back then, one would not only get their rears beat if they mis-behaved, it was such a shame that you got another one when you got home.Now days, if, the teacher tells a child to stop doing something they arent suppose to and get back in their seat, the student can say, "screw you teacher" and the teacher cant do a thing about it. There is no fear of punishment - thats the difference between then and now. We all have to account for our actions and fear keeps those who do not want to obey the law, from running all over us.The punishment keeps most from going 100 MPH on our roads. With no punishment, what would our world be like? We all know the answer to that and none of us would want to live in such a world.The teachers now live in such a world with children that arent getting the proper raising and teaching at home and that is why so many are quitting. Why should the childs world be any different? They need to be taught fear of punishment. Be good and there is no reason to fear.
Age has no real application here unless it is forced. I have seen successful relationships with 25 years difference. It all depends on the couple, their willingness to work at the relationship & their love for each other. It is only when 1 is forced into a relationship with many years difference that it truely is not acceptable.
Neither does a man of 60 going for girls of 30 or younger. There is nothing moral in that at all!
Gee, what religion do you practice? I don't remember that being written anywhere, or against any law. I wouldn't go for a woman that young and have turned down more than a few, but its definately not a morality issue and you should not claim it is. Where did you get your morality training?
However, when I am on my deathbed, I may marry a twenty year old with a dozen kids that are living in poverty so she can have the benefit of my retirement and health insurance. Would that be imoral?? You need to think some things out before you open your keyboard.
I think your observations are correct. It is my belief that spanking can be turned into abuse. I also think that it is the obligation of the parent to 'temper' themselves before punishing their child with spankings.
I saw your profile and I must say your daugther Sydney is beautifu.
If you would like to discuss this further or chat e-mail me.
1. Solomon's request from God was to receive the gift of discernment, so that he could rule justly as king. God gave him the gift of discernment, not necessarily the gift of knowledge. Thus, God did not promise Solomon that he would be the smartest person ever (Newton or Einstein got that gift), but that he would be the most discerning, as illustrated in the story of "splitting the baby."
J'shua bar Joseph, aka Jesus (whom the Greeks called Christ), did not abolish Moses's law. See Matthew 5.17:
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfil."
Finally, Gift claims it is not moral for an old man to seek a young woman as mate. Morality has nothing to do with such choices -- it is a matter of costum, convenience and culture. In many cultures, a man could not take a bride until he had sufficient wealth to pay her dowry and to support her in marriage. Thus it was not uncommon for men to work many years to become prosperous enough to marry, and then to take much younger women as their mates, at least young enough to be in their prime child bearing years so that the man could sire a family. By tradition (although it is nowhere mentioned in the Bible), Joseph was very old when he became engaged to Mary, who was probably in her early teens, the age when most girls of that time were wed.
He shouldn't even be posting about anything to do with raising kids, since THANKFULLY he has not reproduced any of his own. Those that are ignorant to what they are speaking of, should just shut the hell up! Until you actually HAVE kids, don't pretend to know how to raise them.
Spolils/Edmoron, one in the same.
I took the time to scroll back thru this discussion and the only one who even mentioned Solomon was....you! No one was saying he wasn't annointed the smartest man ever by God, only you took it that way?
We were saying from our experience as parents, this does not work of us or our families. And in my case, made the point that my provincial government had outlawed corporal punishment of any kind.
No one slammed God, or solomon . So why is it an attack against you when we don't agree with you?
I thought these forums were for debate not conversion. If I don't agree with you, doesn't mean I'm attacking YOU, means I don't agree with or like your IDEA!