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Is it the End Times?
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Posted on Tue, Jan 18, 2005 22:02

Your argument for the ???positives and negatives??? of believing in God (or any god) is, I am afraid, hardly original. I refer you to Pascal's Wager. You might google it if you are interested in researching this particular theistic thread. However the wager is flawed conceptually because it misses two very critical points:

The first of these is that the same wager can be said of any fabricated belief. For instance, the belief that alien beings from another dimension created our universe and will be very displeased if we do not worship them. Or to be more down-to-earth, so to speak, any religion that contradicts any other. The bottom line is, as a matter of empirical logic, that they cannot all be true.

The second point is that the wager is disconnected from the cost associated with religion and blind faith???s underpinnings: dogmatism. This cost can be measured in the misappropriation of resources, the suffering of those who must die (whoever your side believes the heretics to be), and the fanaticism that drives men to irrational courses of action too many to iterate here.

The fact that a majority of people believe in a god says nothing about the truth of that statement. There was a time when virtually everyone believed the world was flat, and to suggest otherwise was not just considered idiocy but heresy. Truth is not a popularity contest.

The beauty and grander of the universe, from the tinkle in a baby???s eyes to the awesome fireworks of a galactic cluster fills everyone with a sense of wonder. But it is the skeptic, the scientist that turns that wonder into action; asking the probative questions and applying scientific processes to push back the darkness and expand our understanding. And in doing so exposes all of us to even greater wonders than the constrained and bizarre world so poorly illuminated by the popular religious text.

The world isn???t flat, and the tsunami was not the act of any god I would ever worship even if he did exist.



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Posted on Tue, Jan 18, 2005 19:58

Spoils,
you've made you point on your faith and what you believe however not true for all people. If that's what you believe great, and I'm happy you find contentment in that faith.

But I still believe there is more then one path to the same place......and so do those who are Jewish, Budhist, Moslim, Catholic or whatever.
They are not wrong, just different. After all isn't peace, tolerance and harmony amongst all people part and parcel of the whole thing?
When we allow others to have their own belief system, we are being tolerant and loving towards them.....isn't that part of being a Christian?



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Posted on Mon, Jan 17, 2005 15:24

Man, didn't we just open up a can of worms. For all those atheist out there, I would advise you, though it should be a given, to look at it from an objective stand point. What are the positives and negatives if there isn't a God?...What are the plus and minuses if there is one and you don't believe?... Sorry, but that burning in hell eternally is a bigger negative than believing in something that a mojority of this world beleives in regardless of perspectives or religions. It being the end of days?...It is something that is inevitable, atheist or not. There seems to be too many arguments as for the
Bible or Evolution. So, I think it is a combination of two. How exactly, haven't quite got the specifics down but give me a sec... One would have to blind to think that this beautiful universe that we live in was created out of chaos. Have you not seen some of the pictures sent back by the Hubble? Have you not looked into a baby's eyes? Those things of such beauty, eloquence, purity and innocence could only by created by some benevolent being. Please note, that only a blind man sees with his eyes. They have decripted out of the Bible that the world is suppose to end by the result of a meteor hitting us in 2012. There is also a decription saying that will "broken apart..." by Him. Point being, this world is what we make of it. If you have been fortunate enough to acquire or earn a certain income, help those that don't have as much time as the rest of us. Ultimately, time waits for no one and you can only buy so much...



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Posted on Sun, Jan 16, 2005 10:25

Jesus established his church and you can read about the individual congerations in the new testament. They were all set up in a certain way. The qualifications for a leader are in 1 Tim, & Titus, along with what they are called. These congerations had leaders called elders, sometimes bishops and other similar names with deacons under them.Any "church" set up any other way is a counterfit. Any "church" teaching anything else is guilty of false doctrine and those who do so, no matter how well meaning will be condemded. These church leaders met at a central location to discuss religious matters and as man will do, someone wanted to be the "boss" over all of them, even though each congeration was set up to self-rule - hello pope.Yes, the catholic church was the first falling away from the true one and since then, slowly but surely, man has changed things to the point that even the phone book says, "attend the church of your choice". Sounds good but, no such teaching in the scriptures.Jesus said there is ONE way to eternal life - through him, not through any man. I have a lot of friends that say they are jewish but, they have a problem, they cant prove they are one.In order to be a jew, one must be able to trace their heritage to abraham but, those records were destroyed when rome attacked in ad 70.Paul said, "there is one Lord(we all agree on that), there is one faith(faith means the same as belief) and there is one baptism" yet, man comes along and says there are hundreds of ways to get there. He established ONE true church, not hundreds that look religious but, teach false doctrine.



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Posted on Sat, Jan 15, 2005 00:01

First ,I believe that the Tsumani, hurricanes happening more, landslides etc. are majorly to due with global warming, and shifting geographical plates on the earth, not some rath of God.

Second, if we don't accept Christ as our saviour , does that mean the most devoted Jewish, Mulsim, Buddist person is not just as "Christian" as in Christ like, in their ways? And then they will go to hell because they didn't believe in the same way as you?

Sorry I don't buy that there is only one way to believe in God. He may come by different names to the religion, place of origin you or your family is from but I think there are many paths to the same place.

He may be Buddha, Allah, or Jesus, depending where you are and what you believe however you can't tell me that there is only , one right way to Heaven.

Goodness, honesty, lack of sin comes from within and your own spirituality with whomever you call Him/Her, your God.

Putting down others because they don't believe, or believe in the same way as you isn't Christ like behaviour either, remember patience and tolerance?

So my God I refer to as my Higher Power, is loving patient , understanding, forgiving and kind, not a thunder bolt and lightning out to get you guy/gal!



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Posted on Wed, Jan 12, 2005 18:02

The false doctrine of the rapture and thousand year reign sounds real good - unless you know the scriptures well. First, the book of revelation wasnt even recognized as scripture for centuries after Christ. It is a book of symbols and is highly figurative. Fact is, no person walking can tell me exactly what it means so, my guess is as good as theirs. When the predictions of the old testament and the book of revelation is mixed, one can make it say anything they want. Does it make more sense that the dreaded Nero was in power - you know, the guy that fed christians to the lions and this book was written in code, just like our generals do during war and there were gifted people in each congeration that could tell what was said - during that time? Also, Daniel predicted the capativity of the nation of isreal and said, "and these things shall shortly come to pass". That occurred 70 years later. John, at the very beginning of revelation said the very same words so, am i to believe that meant over 2,000 years? I dont think so.



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Posted on Wed, Jan 12, 2005 08:40

There are some real problems with taking the bible and scripture too seriously. First, you are reading in in english and not the orignal language. Second, these writings were heavily edited by the Catholic church for about 1000 years. Third, the the context of these writings is 2000 years old. We have no idea what they really meant.



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Posted on Wed, Jan 12, 2005 00:55

What if there is no God? At the end of my life, i can truly say that religion has made me a better person, a better father and a better husband - all assuming i do my best to follow bibical teaching. The MAIN thing is, what if there is really a God, i didnt take the time to look into history to find out for myself that, there is more proof than i will ever need and therefore, not only is there a God, there is a hell - oops.Are there people that CLAIM to be christians and use peoples emotions to get money from others? Sure is.Are christians sinless? If so, we wouldnt have needed Jesus.Are there counterfits? Sure are and its up to us to search the scriptures to find the truth and the true church. Jesus lived a near perfect life but, the gloom and doom crowd still found fault with him. I need to live my life the best i can and in the end, if there is no God, what have i lost?Nothing! Others can say there is no God and gamble their soul in hell forever, not this ole boy b/c there is way too much historical evidence that says there is indeed a God..If there is, i have eternal life to gain.The watch on your arm was created by someone, so was the car you drive and so was the trees you see. I am to believe there was a big bang and all of a sudden, mankind appeared?If someone believes that then, i will sell them the brooklyn bridge for $10.00.



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Posted on Tue, Jan 11, 2005 15:45

Ok, I give up!! Who is this God?? Has anyone seen him (or her, for that matter!)

The bible is based on ancient scrolls found in ruins? Hmmmmm interesting...there are so many other religions with such drastically different beliefs...take Mormonism for example....Joseph supposedly had gold tablets that God inscribed his word on and these were translated into the Book of Mormon....why did the Mormons get gold tablets and Christians just got paper scrolls?? Christians should feel robbed! :-)

I believe religion is for people that are too scared to make their own decisions or to be accountable for their own lives and their actions. Religion is for followers, not leaders. Leaders involved in religion are there because they recognize that it's a money-making machine that is profitable to them, so they stay involved! A lot of good in the world and in our own country can be done with all the money it takes to build these fancy worship buildings (i.e. churches, synagogues, etc.) from all the tithing from its followers. There are churches building fancy teen centers complete with Big screen TVs, Xboxes, surround sound and every cool thing you can think of, just for the teens of it's members. Now, that's a good use of funds! Why not put that money into scholarships for those teens and others in the community who are less fortunate. Or maybe have a fund to help support businesses that help the community. I realize some churches do these things and more....but more often than not, the money is ripped off from innocent worshipping families that could use that money to better their own lives.

If you haven't figured it out already, I am an atheist and don't buy into the religious bullcrap that gets fed to people. Like someone else in this string hinted at, religion is a scare tactic meant to keep people in line. Tsunami's, Hurricanes, Floods, etc. as a warning from God that the end of the world is coming? Please! These are natural weather/earth phenomena...the same things that have happened for millions of years, only now, they are affecting our civilization and way of life....so people are crying out about the end of the world. So with your idea that God causes these things, the question is: does God have something against all the innocent children and people that died in that wave of water?? I think it's just a crazy thought for people to believe that one person created all that we see around us and that this one person holds all of our fates in "his" hands. I can be smarter & more logical than that and don't buy it. Just live your lives, take care of your kids and families and stop wasting your life worrying about your "sins". The only sin is that more people don't just enjoy their lives the way that makes them happiest. :-)

Any of you ever watch "Bullshit" with Penn and Teller on Showtime?? (You can buy it on DVD) There are a couple of episodes that may be of interest to you, namely the ones on Creationism and The End of the World Theory. Watch them with open minds and then post your view. I would be curious to see them.

Ok, I am done ranting! Get away from the computer and go do something constructive...I know I am!



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Posted on Mon, Jan 10, 2005 12:46

God loves to forgive. That is why he made us the way we are. An all powerful god could have made us anyway he wanted. He made us this way. The same god made Osama Bin Laden, Pat Roberston, and me.

The only explanation for this is that he more we sin the more he loves us. It's either that or he just enjoys watching us suffer. I'll believe the former, just because if its the latter I'm going to suffer anyway.



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Posted on Mon, Jan 10, 2005 12:18

First, the bible is NOT merely a collection of stories. Anyone that has spent an hour researching will find the books of the BIBLE are based on literal scrolls found in ancient ruins. These accounts of Jesus and miracles etc were done by eye witnesses. Therefore the credibility is obviousl That being said, I believe we are in the END Times, but we should live acoountable as if today could be the day of the rapture. Frankly in my experience, those folks that dont belive in teh bible or the idea of heaven and hell and those consequences, are merely grasping to that idealogoy because they doint want to give up sin in their lives. YES sin feels good and being a "good person" isnt enough to go to heaven. The acceptance of Christ as our savior and sacrficie for sin is the only way. We can say , if youd like, "to each their own" but the signs of all prophecies are now in progress, and there is a price to be paid for unbelief, and its eternal



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Posted on Fri, Jan 07, 2005 04:49

I find it odd that one would say such a thing.

You say not to believe in prayers because they are ment to scare you into believeing?

Please explain this to all of us. Id like to hear some evidence as to why you feel this way.



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Posted on Thu, Jan 06, 2005 14:46

do not believe the prayers...they are like politician......they try to make people afraid just to gain power.

Just enjoy your life.....but do not pollute it too much......so that you will enjoy your retirement



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Posted on Tue, Jan 04, 2005 18:35

You're not alone in feeling this way. I myself have thought this through time and time again since 9/11.

Let's take a look at all the starnge weather changes, hurricanes, floods and snow storms. Here in the mountains of VA where I live, it's 60 degree's/ That is far from normal weather in January. Especially for the mountains.

It seems like it's one disaster after another. The tsunami, numerous hurricanes in the Florida area, flooding through out the Arizona area and even snow storms in several central states.

It kinda makes you think.



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Posted on Sun, Jan 02, 2005 23:29

I'd stay away away from those preachers and tune in to Joel Osteen instead. Check your local listings for Sunday AMs and be prepared to be blown away! You can check his website by the same name, no space a dot and com at the end.