Without repeating your explanation of #1 Mayan, yes what you say is true. Why these people blowing themselves up believe otherwise is beyond my comprehension...maybe brainwashing from the time they are very young?
maayan: "I still strongly feel that wars should be avoided instead of rushed into"
With the exception of Korea, I don't know of any wars that were rushed into by the major powers. Saddam was raising hell for 20 years before his demise. Hitler nibbled away at the world country by country for years before it became a world war. The North Vietnam communist fought the French many years before the US entered the war.
These aggressors have a long term strategic plan to take over and will "test the market" to see how far they can go before someone seriously objects. Saddam did it all the time. The US has finally learned: "Give them a inch and they will take a mile". Also, don't play around when you do decide to act.
Bonnie88 write: We could not pass our own laws. They had to be sent to British parliament to be considered and passed. SO we were definitely there! As we are also there in Iraq too, but you don't hear about it. ___________________________________ Bonnie how did it feel having your laws and decisions as to your daily life be dictated by total strangers from another part of the world speaking a different language? Funny that Sharp you feel so strongly too about CAnada under the rule of UK .. _________________________________ Sharp1 Well actually Bonnie, I haven't really noticed a change in my standard of living. So it's a misperception that I feel so strongly about Cda under the rule of the UK...I'm indifferent. As for another country passing our laws, in theory it sounds outrageous, but really it's not like they passed many laws, most were already passed. Our Constitution is based on the Westminister Parliamentary Government. New laws passed today conform with the times and are based on changing views of society. We seem to have gone through a period of embezzlement and coruption the past several years under the Liberal govt. If the UK were still in control, maybe this would never have happened. Not really. I guess we felt more connected to UK back then, not so much anymore. The Queen just visited and left today. We named a hwy after her! lol I'm tired, if I'm not making sense pls forgive me...should have waited to post in the morning. too late! lol
We could not pass our own laws. They had to be sent to British parliament to be considered and passed. SO we were definitely there! As we are also there in Iraq too, but you don't hear about it.
By the late 1800s historically more than 3/4 of the world were under the rule of 1/10th of the people who deem themselves the master colonialists...and the lives of all these natives in the colonies were determined by some strange parliament thousands of miles away...how did it feel having your laws and decisions as to your daily life be dictated by total strangers from another part of the world speaking a different language?
Funny that Sharp you feel so strongly too about CAnada under the rule of UK ..
Domination in any shape or shade is an encroachment of freedom..I often laugh so cynically when I see the huge debate here about UK being defiant about joining the EU and having decisions made by some collective body in Europe..and wondered if they ever thought what they have been doing for over 200 years as colonial masters..
Marking territorial rights and boundaries determined through domination and power is just an extension of the animal kingdom..the human race remain as regressive..
These days the domination is played out in the economic arena..oil, natural resources, nuclear power...
We are constantly in danger of self-annihilation as a human race if not by some terrible disaster caused by nature or environmental imbalance due to our lack of care and neglect or blatant warfare..and all the dire consequences of mutation of the earth..
Scientists continue to do secret studies for the last 5 decades on the effect of the victims of the two H-bombs..in Singapore we are even suspecting that the fallout of that bomb might have some effect on the high incidence of young cancer patients..
I fear our kids will inherit the sins of our own dire acts..
"The US drained many of its oil fields dry fighting wars for other countries. They probably would not have to buy oil from anyone if they were repaid all of the oil used for the tanks, planes, ships, other vehicles, manufacturing plants, ammunition, etc. that were used in the war efforts. No one has replaced this oil to date." ________________________________ Sharp1 5w's...did you know that under the NAFTA agreement in times of war the US has access to unlimited Canadian water and oil? Something that doesn't sit to well with some Canadians with the US Rancher Association blocking the borders to Canadian livestock through a court injunction after the US Govt proclaimed they would open the borders. Now this association is even trying to block import of packaged meat which has been allowed for the past year. __________________________________ 5w's
Further, there wouldn't be a middle east, Iran, Iraq, or Saudi if the Brits and US had not stopped Hitler in North Africa. He wanted those oil fields because he had none. _____________________________________ Sharp1 Hey! You forgot to mention Canada! Pierre Elliott Trudeau brought the Canadian Constitution home to Canada in 1984. Prior to that we were considered a British Colony and any wars that the UK became involved, so did Canada become involved, because the UK was considered our Mother country. We could not pass our own laws. They had to be sent to British parliament to be considered and passed. SO we were definitely there! As we are also there in Iraq too, but you don't hear about it.
wwwww123 write: Bonnie, " I don't think Hinduism preaches self-sacrifice as in 'becoming a human bomb'."
The human bomb did not originate with the arabs, and I think it was a group in India that introduced it to the world. Hindu, I think, but not sure.
Okay guys...I think I started this...let me clarify again...My girlfriend is Hindu. She was telling me something about Muslim's beliefs for self-sacrifice ... becoming martyrs, past & future sins being forgiven, going to heaven etc.
Bonnie claimed it not to be true. But I believe that the Muslim faith believes in peaceful methods to resolve matter. Those who are sacrificing themselves are probably extremists with their own interpretation of the religious beliefs. That is possible. It is not just my girlfriend who believes this. I have seen it written several times in newspapers and news magazines by reputable journalists.
Bonnie88 write: Thanks Maayan, Sixft, www, sharp ..for starting this cyber war of words and historical facts...I never had so much history lesson on such a small space in my life...lol
Your welcome Bonnie! lol
"History told in different perspectives could paint different emotional pictures to different audiences"
True & unfortunate for those who can only see things from one view - their view.
I always look at it as a learning experience. A one-sided perspective is not always the correct perspective. It's interesting to understand how the other side was thinking & feeling about everything, and why. Don't you think?
Kind of like the issue of religion in schools...it has been removed completely and banned...even at Christmas. But what a way to enhance the understanding in our children of all religions at that time of year. How different cultures celebrate it. Not preaching any specific religion to our children, just a small expression at a special time of year so we all can learn about each other and our different cultural or religious beliefs.
I know...I went off on a tangent! lol
"...historical data and facts on hindsight sometimes would show such glaring stupidity of the decisions that world leaders have made in desperate political crises"
It must be difficult to be a leader of a country with all the problems to deal with within one's own country, as well as, all the issues in the World that affect one's country. No one is perfect. To err is human. Sometimes a leader may try something that has never been done before in hopes it will work. If it fails...hindsight is 20/20 for all us, right? We've all made mistakes. Unfortunately in the limelight of the World mistakes are magnified exponentially. A leader can only try to do better in future.
"..Often reasons for those decisions are not thoroughly thought out and sometimes they are only given to cover gross errors on hindsigh...
Thanks Maayan, Sixft, www, sharp ..for starting this cyber war of words and historical facts...I never had so much history lesson on such a small space in my life...lol
History told in different perspectives could paint different emotional pictures to different audiences...historical data and facts on hindsight sometimes would show such glaring stupidity of the decisions that world leaders have made in desperate political crises..Often reasons for those decisions are not thoroughly thought out and sometimes they are only given to cover gross errors on hindsight ..history books could be economical with the truth or tell a different truth too..so as a legally trained suspicious mind , I am always keen on looking for source of all information and facts, evidence , evidence..admissible evidence.only...lol
"So, are you concluding that communism and drugs are good for the people of those countries and that the US should do nothing? I would like an example of where communism or drugs have been good for the people."
Nope. It is not my opinion that communism and drugs are good for the people in those countries. It is my opinion that the good of the people in those countries is not the paramount reason for the US waging these wars. For instance, if we didn't have a drug problem here in the US, do you honestly think that the govt would give a hoot about the people in South America or get as involved in their politics?
"Rule over Palestine, Iraq and Transjordan passed from the Turks to the British, and rule in Lebanon and Syria passed to the French. The peace treaty signed at Versailles in 1919 authorized these power grabs,"
So you are saying that the British and French freed the Arab people from the Turks, and then turned control over to the various Arab tribes, including the Jewish tribe? Sounds like a good thing.
The US drained many of its oil fields dry fighting wars for other countries. They probably would not have to buy oil from anyone if they were repaid all of the oil used for the tanks, planes, ships, other vehicles, manufacturing plants, ammunition, etc. that were used in the war efforts. No one has replaced this oil to date.
Further, there wouldn't be a middle east, Iran, Iraq, or Saudi if the Brits and US had not stopped Hitler in North Africa. He wanted those oil fields because he had none.
"The Korean and Vietnam wars were fought as part of the US' ideological war against communism. The "skirmishes" in South America countries are related to the US' government war on drugs. The point being that the US may not be fighting these wars for pecuniary gain, but I am sure the welfare of the people in these countries is not the primary reason why we fight these wars either."
So, are you concluding that communism and drugs are good for the people of those countries and that the US should do nothing? I would like an example of where communism or drugs have been good for the people.
Well here is some history for you.
American Military Deaths and wounded in defense of of other countries.
World War I (1917?1918)3
Total servicemembers 4,734,991
Battle deaths 53,402
Other deaths in service 63,114
Nonmortal woundings 204,002
Living veterans fewer than 500
World War II (1940?1945)3
Total servicemembers 16,112,566
Battle deaths 291,557
Other deaths in service 113,842
Nonmortal woundings 671,846
Living veterans 4,762,0001
Korean War (1950?1953)
Total servicemembers 5,720,000
Serving in-theater 1,789,000
Battle deaths 33,741
Other deaths in service (theater) 2,827
Other deaths in service (nontheater) 17,730
Nonmortal woundings 103,284
Living veterans 3,734,0001
Vietnam War (1964?1975)
Total servicemembers 8,744,000
Serving in-theater 3,403,000
Battle deaths 47,410
Other deaths in service (theater) 10,789
Other deaths in service (nontheater) 32,000
Nonmortal woundings 153,303
Living veterans 8,295,0001
Gulf War (1990?1991)
Total servicemembers 2,183,000
Serving in-theater 665,476
Battle deaths 147
Other deaths in service (theater) 382
Other deaths in service (nontheater) 1,565
Nonmortal woundings 467
Living veterans 1,852,0001
The US has helped solve many problems around the world but at the same time it has either caused some new problems or escalated old ones. I personally believe that the US is a great Nation and has used its power in a good way for the most part. But to suggest that the US fights most of these wars for unselfish reasons is to review history through rose-tinted lenses. For instance, there is evidence to suggest that America may not have gotten involved in WWII if not for the Pearl Harbor bombing. The Korean and Vietnam wars were fought as part of the US' ideological war against communism. The "skirmishes" in South America countries are related to the US' government war on drugs. The point being that the US may not be fighting these wars for pecuniary gain, but I am sure the welfare of the people in these countries is not the primary reason why we fight these wars either.
"The American don't kill each other as a policy. Full Stop. However, the rest of the world are game."
wwwww Well, here I am. lol
Sure maayan, the US are bad guys. We fought in WWI and WWII in order to control the coal from Germany and the fish from Japan. In Korea, we wanted their kimchie and in Vietnam their rice. Now Iraq oil, and who knows what in South America -poppies?. Sure, we just love to go all over the world stirring up trouble for fun.
Someday you need to think what the world map would look like without the US intervention and peacekeeping efforts.Who would own your country? Who would own Iraq, the whole middle east, and all of Europe? Which drug lord or communist tyrant would control South America? Look for motives. Crimes need motives. Don't tell me the US is stealing money when we are spending $80 billion per year in Iraq alone and $12 billion in Afghan. What other country has done so much for the world, given so many lives? How many men have we lost in WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and in more recent history. What did the US gain in rebuilding Europe, Japan, Afghan, Iraq, etc.
Study your history, not propaganda. You are too smart for propaganda and to smart to not understand what the US has unselfishly sacrificed for the benefit of the world. If the US has made a mistake here and there, so what, --it's trivial compared to the good they have done and lives they have saved. - And for so little thanks from the people they have helped.
Bonnie...thanks for the interesting history lesson re: Japanese kamikazi, etc.
I hear what you are saying, but the Japanese Govt made a public statement to the World admitting to their part in WWII.
There was a children's book I read to my daughter's gr 3 class years ago. Wish I could remember the name. It was written by a Japanese lady who lived through the Hiroshima A-bomb. All her pictures were in black & red. She sells her paintings. She explained years after Hiroshima someone asked her what her paintings were of. When she explained what happened on the day, the other Japanese lady profusedly denied it and called her a liar. She spoke of a blinding white light, and she described people running into the river after...her description was very gruesome. It's one thing to learn about the A-bomb being dropped and that no one knew the affects until after. But to read a descriptive account of the day by a survivor...can rest heavily on one's mind.
sixfeetwtc write: I'll keep this short and sweet - it's a necessity to be aware of and understand the differences and similarities of the various customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of the racial, religious, and social groups that exist. Ignorance can be a breeding ground for intolerance and prejudice. On a grand scale it's evident throughout history that humans tend to fear that which they don't or are unwilling to comprehend, and will try to conform others to their culture in order to eradicate that sense - the source and result of much discrimination, hostility, injustices and conflicts in the world. This occurs on a smaller scale as well, in our own backyards. Education of and experience with various cultures, whether formal or life, is key to the acceptance of them.
Well said SIX. Your post reminded me of the book we've both read "Blindness".
I remember hearing on the news that the Japanese govt had finally admitted to the atrocities they committed during WWII, and have added it to their academic curriculum.
Don't think so Sharp..most of that part of the history is couched in v. obscure language that claim that they are the oppressed in a struggle for freedom and nationalism ( I read Japanese and their books)...giving figures on the numbers who died in the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombing..I visited the site of the bombing and there is a museum which displayed all the debris and remnants from the holocaust but nowhere did they mention the reason for the bombing..and no where did they even show the figures of the dead Asians who were the victims of their occupation..
In their literature of that era, we read stories of wives of the kamizake pilots telling their pain and there is one moving one about a woman whose husband was a human torpedo ..she wrote about slipping into the torpedo hold and tried to visualise his emotions in the last minutes of his life before he was fired off as a human companion guiding the torpedo.. ('Iron Fish' by Kono Taeko) ..read Mishima's stories on Patriotism, he was that sort of blind militant fanatic..nationalistic ideals taken to extreme is frightening ..for the Japanese , forgiveness and apology done en masse is a ritual , it is not a moral guilt issue..u see suicides by CEOs there often and there is a forest in Japan which is called 'suicide forest' everyday that town has a team whose job is to retrieve dead men who hang themselves on the trees the night before...self-annihilation is a form of ritualistic practice when a mission has failed.....the kamikaze pilots were bred and conditioned to think of themselves as the ultimate sacrifice , most of them were orphans brainwashed and conditioned to die for the extended family-country..not different from the human bomb terrorists of today.