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Would you relocate to EUROPE (or anywhere outside the USA/Canada) and if so, where would you like to live?
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Posted on Mon, May 30, 2005 22:52

I do that a lot also. Love to make people think, especially someone who is wrong a lot. Not mentioning any names,you understand.
lol

___________________

First presumption that you are always right is already an arrogant notion that your is the only view, which is obviously an incorrect stance to take.
In my business no one is right or guilty till proven otherwise, and there is often merit even in the 'wrong' view.
Education, education..this is what this topic is all about, education of the wrong views or ignorant views of others also teach us to beware of the dangers of incorrect info, uninformed minds and communication as a misused tool...



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Posted on Mon, May 30, 2005 17:15

Bonnie " prefer playing devil's advocate"

________________

I do that a lot also. Love to make people think, especially someone who is wrong a lot. Not mentioning any names,you understand.
lol



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Posted on Mon, May 30, 2005 15:17

www...just because I concur to one of your topics does not mean you are right all the time ..agreeing to disagree is the crux of all good discussion and debate. Im definitely not a 'yes-woman' and would prefer playing devil's advocate just so that people see the alternative views to all issues and would not dream of wanting everyone to see only my point of view, but for all intent and purpose woudl like to pursuade others to see the validity of my point...pursuasive pursuasion is part of my job.



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Posted on Mon, May 30, 2005 11:39

I wrote my bible (DRAFT) with homebulders and Enron types being the target. Would have to be made more generic. Also need to set up a "seal of approval" type of organization to show that a corp. complies to the guidlines and ethics. That is going to take a sizeable workforce and organization. Retired people would be great if you could get enough.

Stock analysist can care less about how a corporation behaves now, but they should be taking that into account when establishing the value of a company.

A rating indicating good watchdog controls and a corporations ethics rating would give them something to go on and also show long term potential or possible failure due to corruption.If data is available, stock analysist can be held accountable for not pointing out high risk. However, now, there is little visibility into internal problems or ethics of a corporation. They just react on quarterly reports, industry news, announcements by the company, etc.

I submitted a new thread for this subject. If approved, lets move the discussion to there and delete entries on this thread.
____________________________________
Bonnie "
www..u realise this is the only thread we agree ."
_________________

I can't help it if you are wrong all the time. I do my best to straighten you out, but alas.
lol

wwwww



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Posted on Sun, May 29, 2005 23:29

www..u realise this is the only thread we agree ..for corporate good...so when are u going to publish this bible for the good of the common shareholders?



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Posted on Sun, May 29, 2005 17:17

Bonnie: "public companies are a close door group of their own cronies"
______________________________________

Yes, there is a lot of that going on in the US also. You may have a good solution. I know one corporation here has a board and a second advisory board. Something needs to be done for sure. Too many crooks in corporations.

wwwww



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Posted on Sun, May 29, 2005 01:53

BUt don't forget a lot of the board members on these public companies are a close door group of their own cronies..they recommend each other to each other's boards..especially in a small tight community ..a bit of old boy network and back scratching.. I should know I see it often. A long time girlfriend of mine , who has retired from main legal practice has just been appointed by a huge international bank as their only token female non-exec director..she is the first in 150 years of their history, prior to that most of the board members came from within the corporation through seniority..and connections..the shareholders have little say in it.. Memo and article of these companies give directors a lot of power directly and indirectly thru inertia of shareholders who don't attend AGMs and hence all the actions of the board are approved carte blanche..what u need is an independent rep or group made up of only individual and not institutional shareholders.. a sort of minority shareholders' rep..with veto powers.. given to him by nomination and majority vote of shareholders at an AGM which exclude the attendance of board directors..and it should be a voluntary corp of shareholders made up of experienced retired accountants, lawyers , bankers, nosey housewives..not paid by anyone..a true altruistic force to be reckon with and they get awarded for public service to the community at the end of their tenure..



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Posted on Sat, May 28, 2005 18:15

That is not what I meant. The corporation has all of those departments, but they are independent from all line organization and the CEO. They report directly to the board. This way, the board can get the straight skinny (poop(picture) about the state of the company, not just its finances, which as we know are often cooked.



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Posted on Sat, May 28, 2005 16:15

well..if u gonna do that for them..2% is gonna make u very very rich ..if u wanna run it and do the hiring and the firing for them as a headhunter..that is a super great 2% ...tootoootoooting your horn for you here..



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Posted on Sat, May 28, 2005 10:34

Bonnie: "and they could be deemed as pariahs"
"can't work in small companies only large multi corpn.."
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Yes, only large stock exchange companies where lots of bucks are at risk.

Typically, a large government organization in the US operates this way. Human Resources and civil service laws help prevent unfair firings, HR sends a list of qualified candidates to the organization needing people. IG investigates internal fraud and theft, Safety and usually QA are not in the line organizations.

The working model is there, the workers like it, now it just needs to be applied to large organizations where the public has invested their retirement and savings.



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Posted on Sat, May 28, 2005 08:35

It is an expensive and labor intensive exercise..and they could be deemed as pariahs , ostracised by the main stream guys...a bit like gestapo style government..adding to lots of bureaucracy and power struggle between the different depts...
can't work in small companies only large multi corpn..



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Posted on Sat, May 28, 2005 07:42

It is important to understand who is part of the watchdog team and thus independent of the management team.

Internal Audit, HR, Legal, IG, QA, Safety

Notice, I put HR or personnel independent of the CEO. That will help prevent him from bringing in unqualified cronies, and from firing whistle blowers.

All legal matters are independent of the CEO.

All Quality Assurance (QA) and Safety matters, including consumer safety are independent.

They all report through a separate manager, who reports directly to the board.

They are overhead to the corporation, just as there are now. The board with decide how many are needed.

Independence from the CEO is the only way to fix the corruption, etc. problems.

And yes, all of the watchdogs have to watch for corruption among themselves.



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Posted on Fri, May 27, 2005 22:59

Watchdogs have to be paid , and appointed, who appoints and who pays..that is the check .

A separate fund has to be put aside in the corporate fund for that and decided by a separate entity..but one lone guy can't beat the rest, it has to be a team..



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Posted on Fri, May 27, 2005 16:46

There will always be crooks, but not ever crook affects millions of shareholders like Enron did. Big stock exchange corporations need watchdogs, in all countries.

wwwww



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Posted on Fri, May 27, 2005 16:24

I would relocate to Palermo, Italy... In a heart beat so quick it would cause a heart attack and I would die, and never would have had the chance to go there. :'o( I guess I will have to have my last wish to be burried there.
*sigh*
:oP


Rebekah



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Posted on Fri, May 27, 2005 09:58

Bulldogs that bite and know its day and expect little thanks for a job well done..they are a distinct and extinct breed..

I m too cynical to believe that they exist and they could save this dire world from crooks ..everywhere..
Self-preservation is the only key to a more virgilant existence..watch our backs and check every receipt and invoice and bill you get..



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Posted on Fri, May 27, 2005 09:38

I laid out the plan, and have many more details in a white paper. Now we just need some bulldogs to execute it.



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Posted on Fri, May 27, 2005 06:19

All good management starts from the top ..the minute that corrupts or are ineffective, it filters downwards..
It needs a good working ethos throughout to protect that ..checks and balances and the people who man them need to be constantly checked to otherwise they too are corruptible..
In Indonesia, an official once tough in cheek called 'Corruption' the invisible form of redistribution of wealth...that filters thru the system..it is just a more blatant form of old-boy networking taken to extreme..



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Posted on Fri, May 27, 2005 02:26

Here are some ideas.

3. Watch-Dog Departments: Internal Audit, HR, Legal, IG, QA, Safety etc. should report directly to the board through an independent manager, and even be allowed to bypass that manager on serious ?ill will? and misconduct issues if the manager will not bring them to the board. The board must track ?ill will? and misconduct as vigorously as they track profits. These ?watch-dog? departments must not work for the CEO, COO or CFO; they should only provide matrix support to the line organizations. Management or their subordinates may be cooking the books or stealing the stockholders blind. Should a carmaker be allowed to produce a car that Safety knows is not safe? Identifying or preventing these offenses must be the function of internal and external ?watch-dogs?. There has to be independent checks and balances against misdeeds by the primary management team. Outside, independent audits have proven to be inadequate, and rarely deal with management issues. Strong internal controls are the first line of defense, and those in charge of those internal controls must be held accountable.

? Every manager and employee must watch out for wrongdoing that impacts the company, employees, and investors, no matter who is doing it. There needs to be a method to report such wrongdoing, or to even start an investigation by others without loosing your job. Bona fide whistleblowers need adequate protection by law. Firing a bona fide whistle blower, or denying them information to prove their case should be a felony offense.
? The watchdog organizations should be paid bonuses and higher salaries for outstanding work, rather than stock options or bonuses based upon stock prices - conflict of interest reasons.
? Violations of human rights, dictators, corruption, terrorist acts, etc. are third world problems, right? Wrong. Check out what can happen in organizations without protection from such abuse. A good HR, audit, and IG department must represent employees a...



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Posted on Fri, May 27, 2005 02:17

www..anything internal is also corruptible and dismissible..the cliques internally are powerful and they can overwhelm and bully the spy...
it is a sort of mafia operation inside that is scary..and I have encountered real life drama in my career path..that involved criminal investigations and murders and jail sentences of top management..so how protected are these insiders? Are we in danger of propagating a sort of gestapo -underground espionage albeit for altruistic reasons.



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