Well said 5w's. I agree with what you said and although unfathomable to me to ever forgive anyone if they cheated on me, I see your point.
Bonnie, maybe "hogwash" was a strong term. To me, counseling only works when someone really wants to be counseled. I've often thought about counselors. I once met a marriage counselor and she was telling me stories about couples, relationships and issues which she generally 'helps' people. I asked her a plethora of questions and she answered them to the best of her ability. Finally, after noticing no ring on her finger, I asked her, "are you married?" She said, "No, I've never been married but always looking for Mr. Right." That did it for me. I asked her, "How can you counsel married couples if you've never been married and really know what they are going through?" She explained to me that based on her training, she was more than qualified to help them. I told her in a very polite way, that I thought it was BS that she was giving advice to people in that fashion. Kind of like people without children giving advice on how to raise children. Anyway, that's my take on some counselors.
Mandalay "anyone who has ever left a marriage where the other person has removed themselves from the relationship via their abuse, lies or cheating is not of strong mind when they decide to go back to that person."
I have observed over the years that cheating is usually the most forgivable offense. Apparently it is the more understandable offense because it is human and animal nature.
Verbal abuse, chronic lying, severe personality disorders (untreated), usually leave the spouse with no hope that things could ever be better, and yes, you would have to be crazy to get back in that zoo/game again.
Hmm..hogwash huh? well I have sat thru so many broken marriages as a counsellor and the sum total is there is no one size fits all answer to divorces, reconciliations and marriage issues..they are as varied as the people in them..
Mandalay you seem to me to represent the 'bitter and cynical' group but is brave to move on and you have been lucky to find the new love of your life and regain trust in womankind, there are the 'sad and wallowing ' bunch who will hanker and wait , some will compromise and return to the fold and try again , many will remain miserable..there are also the cautious group that would prefer to remain single and weary of commitment and there is the group who will continue to go on their merry way marrying for fear of loneliness and would prefer to go thru more trial and error without understanding the full impact and responsibilty that comes with marriage...
I did say that there are the ones who regret dumping their ex..mainly because the reason that started the divorce was on false premises or very minor issues that could have been overcome if the two parties had time to think sensibly and truly make an attempt at reconciliation..hence the role of counselors in reconciliation is a very important one ..identifying the original reason for the break up..Daniel Goleman, on 'Emotional Intelligence' observed thru body language and communication between couples over close circuit TV and is able to foretell how long a couple could last and whether the marriage could be saved..
OK, my statement about 'missed ' spouses apply primarily to couples who could be saved or could be good friends if they would just sit together and do some serious communication with a good mediator and they will realise that there could be some form of compromise that were never examined properly..
and in truth , sociologists have made studies to prove that traditionally women as wives/mothers tend to be the social 'glue' that provide a social life for the family.
Bonnie I really do believe you are a smart woman but that post was a bunch of hogwash. Seriously, anyone who has ever left a marriage where the other person has removed themselves from the relationship via their abuse, lies or cheating is not of strong mind when they decide to go back to that person.
Did I love my ex-wife, sure I did, but there was no way I was putting up with her lies and cheating ways. She did it once and it was once to many. Those people who are still "in love" with their exes, from instances stated above and want to get back together show very little self confidence and believe they can't find anyone else. They wallow in their own self pity to much to care. Call me cruel but I have a frim belief that you can't change anyone, not when you are our age and allegedly a responsible mature person. People don't want to change Bonnie, you know that, it takes to much work. Why would anyone want to go back to a situation based on previous acts of that nature?
Mandalay..even with divorced/separated men, I think the ones who have caused grief to their wives and caused her to leave do regret and missed them so..
I know at least one guy here whose wife separated for 2 years due to his fooling around..never lost hope for her to return and kept regretting his own folly..and she finally returned but I hope they are working out their issues..he missed her so much and promised never to misbehave again..but who knows...
I also know another couple whose husband after having several mistresses , now realises he is still in love with his wife and wants to remarry her, so she lives next door to him and still refuses to remarry him and she enjoys him better as a boyfriend continuing to woo her ..
the chase for alot of men is like trying to catch the proverbial fish that is still not caught and he is at wits end finding the right bait , rod and technique..so my statement was based on years of observation and I will add that it works both ways ..
husbands too could be the ones missed when the wives find that after all the searching they have lost a big catch..I am counselling such a woman right now..she was so so stupid to go fool around and lose her gorgeous husband ..and knows she will never ever find anyone so generous and kind again..so it cuts both ways..
Marriage as an institution is in danger of being treated as disposable nappies.. and like nappies it is bio-non degradable..stinks and environmentally unfriendly..time to re-examine why this is so..
Bonnie, in the context of the thread and based on the last post from Sharp prior to you making that comment, it was taken that you were talking about divorced men. In your scenario above, then yes, I would agree with you.
Good move Sharp..men never know how much they miss their wives till they lose them...
HUH? You really didn't write that did you?
yes, and this is a valid statement made by lots of my male friends, one just lost his wife to cancer and is beyond consolation and is completely lost without her..he described his pain as losing the right arm..
I happened to stand in line behind a couple at a cinema recently, a guy passed by and this couple asked about his wife, he shocked them by telling them that she had just died, and his parting words to the MALE friend was,:' don't take her for granted. Enjoy and love her, u don't know how bad it is to lose her..'..this is a real conversation I overheard from total strangers...right from the horse's mouth...a man speaking from the heart!
..and my late husband often told me that marrying me was the best thing he has ever done in his life..when I use to leave him to take the kids off for the summer , he was completely lost and lonely and would call everyday to hear our voices ..
why do you doubt this statement I made?
I know what u mean CUB, happened to me once too, so I use to carry a mini sandbucket in the car..very handy for accidents, emergencies like puke and pee.. mini bin for all rubbish..and also sandy beach to stop for some fun..
I'm thinking fundraising organizer, coodinating/hosting corporate parties in excess of 100 people a few times a year, volunteer mom/part time teacher, raising 2 kids, chauffeur duties, family social coordinator, chef, secretary, etc. I think a stay at home mom is worth a hell of alot more! lol
?15,000 is about US$22,000..some years back and of course they were pin-stripe suited chauvnistic guys who calculated that meagre figure..so they were thinking of their posh ladies-of leisure wives who have live-in help..I think..
You are definitely right about the work of a stay-at home wife and mum..who works all day and on call all night and enjoys no leave of any sort..I was a born-again mum , stayed home and realised how tough the job was compared to going to an office and shifting paper , meetings and lunches..and travels...with secretaries to attend to your mundane stuff..
Good move Sharp..men never know how much they miss their wives till they lose them...
Wives are social secretaries..and not that long ago an insurance company did put a numerical figure to the cost of the job of being wife and stay at home mums..about ?15,000 p.a. and that is how much they cost to replace..