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What they want and what they need )) Sort by:
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Posted on Wed, Feb 15, 2012 10:08

Yesterday my Iraqi students divided a board into two halves and wrote that a husband has to work every day, he must buy food, 'tools and accessories', be silent and love his wife, AND a wife should use cosmetics, watch TV, cheer her husband, scold him(!), grieve for the dead relatives and dance ... 

Then they sighed and wrote that she, of course, has to cook, raise their children, clean the house and love her husband.

 



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Posted on Mon, Mar 05, 2012 09:03

Quoting Curious2078:

HUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????????!!!! More detail needed before I explode.


LOL I'm scared!



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Curious2078
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Posted on Sun, Mar 04, 2012 18:47

HUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????????!!!! More detail needed before I explode.


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Posted on Thu, Feb 23, 2012 03:53

LOL I supposed this topic would be a joke but it turned into something very... academic :)



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Posted on Thu, Feb 23, 2012 03:50

Dakota,

 

Sorry for the delay of my answers. I've been busy with my book. 

Were they brainwashed? I don't think so. It was just a decade or so when they get a sort of modern culture. Though American pop-culture is agressive using all the sources of mass media it meets with the other culture. It's not so easy to destroy the muslim way of thinking especially it's not just traditional culture but traditional culture based on religion. 

I guess it's a need to have mistress first. The culture of harem and so on. That is why they didn't mark usual wife's responsibilities. And even 2 Iraqi girls in that group were glad to hear that they need to dance and use cosmetics first. Of course, now they are far away from their wives' care and begin to value it more. And they say they love their women. But relationship in marriage is different from the love relationship. Everywhere.

Even in Asia with its very male-oriented cultures they understand that their inner life depends on women. And the devide responsibilities and agree to demonstrate mutual respect to each other on public. For many South Koreans, for example, family is a factory... or army. Inner life belongs to mothers-in-law  and they have a right to treat a young wife of their son badly, but they do everything to keep a family's face.

Men represent their families in outside and they follow the demands of male society. But they understand they depend on their wives completely and they need to please their females.

All of this and even more created a specific national character, and personally, when I see how european guys marry korean girls I feel sorry for both. They are toooooooo different to understand the needs of each other. She will never feel protected and he will be always under the pressure.

 

Mass-media question. Millions of men and women are victims of TV images. We know that, we feel that, we have a lot of examples around us and here, on this site. But... who create the image of a modern woman? Whom she should be? ... I'm not asking, I'm offereing to think over a huge problem of our modern mass culture.

 

So, your point about boobs and girls who would die for having them... And men who're in spite of everything interesting in those boobs... I've known a man who was divorced long time ago, but when his wife got a couple of new surprises (for her new boyfriend and the rest of the potential partners) that ex-spouse was so ... curious about what she said to their little kids... Kids were 8 and 4, they were kids and didn't notice anything, but man was really interested in his ex's new boobs. And this is a sign what a nature he had.

We can discuss many issues about modern standards which force people to feel stress and depression, unhappiness and selfishness. And I felt my Iraqi students were just a little part of the iceberg.

 

 

 



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Dakota35
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Posted on Sun, Feb 19, 2012 06:45

laughing_cloud, You said: "I've never met with such complicated image of a family, even in Asian countries" Could you please explain to me the complexity of family in Asian countries? And also what it is that you view as wrong or right with the Asian family unit? A simple short explanation will do as I'm sure it could get complicated. You said: "And now speaking about what 'those men want'... Just think about divorces. Especially when men change their 'old' wives to the 'new' and 'sparkling' silicone variants" Let me give you my opinion on this. First let me say that I HATE those fake boobs, never been a boob guy myself. This is what I believe is happening. We had a lady on this board blog about a chemical (oxytocin) that is produced in the brain during sex. This chemical makes us develop a bond or attachment for the person we are with sexually. In today's society, most men and women find it acceptable to sleep with many partners before they finally settle down and get married. So with each partner this chemical is released into the brain signaling a bond/attachment. Now, as we know with any chemical or drug, the more we use it the more our body needs of the drug to get the same effect. But our body produces the same amount each time. Thus the bonding/attachment effect becomes less and there is no reinforcement since the person is with multiple partners. (i.e. If the person was only with one partner, each sexual experience would add a reinforced attachment to that single person.) So finally when this person gets married, the bonding chemical that is produced in the brain has little effect. So this person is more likely to cheat or divorce. I hope I've explained it well enough. Of course, I am sure there can be other reasons why a man trades his wife in for a younger model which I will not get into. In all fairness women have their own issues in this area. I once thought it was only the men that were dogs, now I realize it's both men and women. Dakota


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Posted on Sun, Feb 19, 2012 06:09

Okay, I kind of get it now..thanks. So basically you are saying that these Iraqi students have been culturally brainwashed? I know a American lady that was married to a Iranian and he treated her like dirt, physically and mentally. You said: "Now I have a question to you, Dakota, what is going on with the people's mind? Even in traditional cultures?" This is easy to answer. With each sin society becomes more accepting of the sin, being okay and normal (especially where there are no repercussion or a reward is realized). Society is becoming a warped up mess. Look at it this way as a example. The first time a person shop lifts, I assume, they are very nervous..the next, less nervous, the tenth time it's like taking a walk. Now just imagine if society was okay with this behavior...then slowly everyone would be doing it and accepting of it as the norm and okay. Perhaps that wasn't the perfect example but you get what I mean. And I'll bet there are people that would say it's okay to steal from large companies such as Walmart...and they'll justify with; Walmart has plenty of money, they rip us off, they'll just write it off on their taxes. Justification of a sin. I blame the media to a large extent. The media glorifies bad behavior and makes it seem funny or cool. I could name a long list of bad behaviors that the media glorifies and brainwashes the shallow minded into believing that it's okay and that America of yesterday had it all wrong. No, much was right. People were kinder, happier with less, and more family oriented. In my opinion that is was is happening...and the divorce rate proves something is wrong. I hate to be so pessimistic but if it's true it true. Slowly but surely America's conscience is being destroyed. Each time we accept bad behavior as okay and just social evolution we lose a small amount of our conscience until there is very little or nothing left. Since I am American I can only speak for what I see in America. That's my personal opinion. Dakota Being normal is being different. I've heard people say, "I got a tattoo to be different"...I reply..."I didn't get one to be different". :)


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Posted on Sun, Feb 19, 2012 04:05

Quoting Dakota35:

laughing_cloud, You totally lost me. Is there something wrong with a man going to work each day to make a living and providing for his family? Is there something wrong with a man loving his wife? Is there something wrong with a woman using cosmetics (I don't know many women that will go out without makeup)? Can a woman not watch TV if it is her choosing? Can a woman not cheer for her husband when he is successful and disagree when she believes he is wrong? If the husband provides by going to work each day, then who will raise the children, keep the house clean, and cook? Can a woman not love her husband? Shouldn't a relationship be 50/50? I mean, what do you want? Let's see. A man that will not work and provide for his family. A man that does not love his wife. A woman that does not love her husband, doesn't clean house, has nothing to do with her children, wears no makeup, can't cook, puts her husband down when he does good and scolds him when he does well? What am I missing? I think a relationship should be 50/50 but each person should do their part even if traditional roles are reversed. Whatever makes the relationship work and happy. Laughing_cloud you said; "Those men ... they want always the same ))) Everywhere ))))" First I don't think you should group all men in the same category. No, men are different and not all men want the same thing. When you said this, the first thing that came to mind is sex. And if this is what you meant then yes, most men want sex, but not all men want sex in the same way. Some men just want to sleep around with every woman he can find, while other want a loving relationship with one woman. Perhaps, since you are Russian, something was lost in what you meant. Curious2078 seemed to understand what you meant..I think? So please try to explain to me what you meant as perhaps I am just a little slow? Now with all that said, I know that many women from Middle Eastern countries are mistreated by their husbands. I am in NO way defending this behavior. It is sickening. But it's a huge statement when you say; "Those men...they want always the same" Who are "Those men". Please explain? Kindest Regards, Dakota


Dear Dakota, :-)

 

if you re-read the topic, it was about what they put first as the wife's duties. And those duties were far from traditional role of a woman in a family. My topic was NOT about a husband, nothing wrong with that. Even more, they understood their duties perfectly, but it was about what they prefer to have or what they remembered only AFTER my hint. Indeed, at first, they expected behaviour of a mistress, not a wife. And those were muslims...

 

I'm far from any conclusions, but it's very interesting to find out what Iraqi students wanted. Neither my christian students, no atheists never put in a list that their wife should watch TV, and yell at her husband... I didn't believe when I heard it, but they insisted to put it as a duty. And they need to keep silence. Of course, there was some percent of a joke, but in every joke there is a lot of truth.

 

If we remember that according to their religion the wife should obey her husband, she must be beautiful only for him and modest to the rest of the world... this invective part is really strange. And they refused to give her money, but preferred to pay for everything themselves...

 

I've never met with such complicated image of a family, even in Asian countries. So, I guess, Middle East is something. If we have muslims here, I'd like to hear what they think of it.

 

And now speaking about what 'those men want'... Just think about divorces. Especially when men change their 'old' wives to the  'new' and 'sparkling' silicone variants... Now I have a question to you, Dakota, what is going on with the people's minds? Even in traditional cultures?



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Dakota35
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Posted on Sat, Feb 18, 2012 18:35

Quoting laughing_cloud:

Koofantse,

I don't remember the 'invective' part of wife's duties )))



By "invective" if you mean abusive. A relationship should never be abusive by either husband or wife. Traditionally it has been the man that goes to work and the woman that stays home and works in the home. As times have changed many women have also had to get jobs to help support a family. In this case, house work should be divided accordingly. And both the man and woman should be a huge part of raising the children. When either are missing from a child's life, it cause problems. I've seen this first hand. JMHO


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Posted on Sat, Feb 18, 2012 18:26

laughing_cloud, You totally lost me. Is there something wrong with a man going to work each day to make a living and providing for his family? Is there something wrong with a man loving his wife? Is there something wrong with a woman using cosmetics (I don't know many women that will go out without makeup)? Can a woman not watch TV if it is her choosing? Can a woman not cheer for her husband when he is successful and disagree when she believes he is wrong? If the husband provides by going to work each day, then who will raise the children, keep the house clean, and cook? Can a woman not love her husband? Shouldn't a relationship be 50/50? I mean, what do you want? Let's see. A man that will not work and provide for his family. A man that does not love his wife. A woman that does not love her husband, doesn't clean house, has nothing to do with her children, wears no makeup, can't cook, puts her husband down when he does good and scolds him when he does well? What am I missing? I think a relationship should be 50/50 but each person should do their part even if traditional roles are reversed. Whatever makes the relationship work and happy. Laughing_cloud you said; "Those men ... they want always the same ))) Everywhere ))))" First I don't think you should group all men in the same category. No, men are different and not all men want the same thing. When you said this, the first thing that came to mind is sex. And if this is what you meant then yes, most men want sex, but not all men want sex in the same way. Some men just want to sleep around with every woman he can find, while other want a loving relationship with one woman. Perhaps, since you are Russian, something was lost in what you meant. Curious2078 seemed to understand what you meant..I think? So please try to explain to me what you meant as perhaps I am just a little slow? Now with all that said, I know that many women from Middle Eastern countries are mistreated by their husbands. I am in NO way defending this behavior. It is sickening. But it's a huge statement when you say; "Those men...they want always the same" Who are "Those men". Please explain? Kindest Regards, Dakota


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Posted on Sat, Feb 18, 2012 03:48

Quoting koofantse:

That is what is written in the Bible too i guess hahahahh


Koofantse,

I don't remember the 'invective' part of wife's duties )))



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Posted on Fri, Feb 17, 2012 03:58

That is what is written in the Bible too i guess hahahahh


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Posted on Thu, Feb 16, 2012 04:24

Quoting Curious2078:

Without many hours of contemplation on this, I have only one thing to say: HUH!!!????????????!!!!!! YUCH!!!!


Those men ... they want always the same ))) Everywhere ))))



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Curious2078
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Posted on Wed, Feb 15, 2012 20:47

Without many hours of contemplation on this, I have only one thing to say: HUH!!!????????????!!!!!! YUCH!!!!


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