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billzeke
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Posted on Sun, Dec 19, 2010 08:04

It would have given a pathway to citizenship for young foreign born people who entered the US illegaly with their parents. Although it passed the House, it could not get by the Senate; so their status will remain the same. They are not legally in this country. Makes it hard to get a good job or higher education.

 

 

 

Anyone have any thoughts on the subject??? 



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PrincessK2004
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Posted on Sat, May 21, 2011 20:46

YOU R CRZY AND MEAN


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wwww12345
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Posted on Wed, Dec 22, 2010 04:15

Many will not be able to enter college because they won't be able to pass the entrance exams. Many will not be able to enter the military for the same reason, plus the inability to pass they physical exams. That probably takes care of about 50 percent. What happens to them? some data, unverified. Nearly 1 in 4 fails military exam RICK NOTE: The USAF recruiter did not even bother to come to the last high school where I taught. When I asked him, he basically said, "Find me a kid who can score over 30 and I will run to your school. Otherwise, I don't have time to waste." The SAT i...s a multifunction test and it is scored in several different ways. However, there is a final "aptitude" score which determines if you can join the military or not. Unfortunately, it was a rare event for me to find a kid who could score 30+ out of a possible score of 99. To show you how education has failed this generation, I was a very average B student and I scored a 95 on the test in 1977. Nearly 1 in 4 fails military exam By CHRISTINE ARMARIO and DORIE TURNER, Associated Press Christine Armario And Dorie Turner, Associated Press 1 hr 37 mins ago MIAMI – Nearly one-fourth of the students who try to join the U.S. Army fail its entrance exam, painting a grim picture of an education system that produces graduates who can't answer basic math, science and reading questions, according to a new study released Tuesday. The report by The Education Trust bolsters a growing worry among military and education leaders that the pool of young people qualified for military service will grow too small. "Too many of our high school students are not graduating ready to begin college or a career — and many are not eligible to serve in our armed forces," U.S. Education Secretary Arne Duncan told the AP. "I am deeply troubled by the national security burden created by America's underperforming education system." The effect of the low eligibility rate might not be noticeable now — the Department of Defense says it is meeting its recruitment goals — but that could change as the economy improves, said retired Navy Rear Admiral Jamie Barnett. "If you can't get the people that you need, there's a potential for a decline in your readiness," said Barnett, who is part of the group Mission: Readiness, a coalition of retired military leaders working to bring awareness to the high ineligibility rates. The report by The Education Trust found that 23 percent of recent high school graduates don't get the minimum score needed on the enlistment test to join any branch of the military. Questions are often basic, such as: "If 2 plus x equals 4, what is the value of x?" The military exam results are also worrisome because the test is given to a limited pool of people: Pentagon data shows that 75 percent of those aged 17 to 24 don't even qualify to take the test because they are physically unfit, have a criminal record or didn't graduate high school. Educators expressed dismay that so many high school graduates are unable to pass a test of basic skills. "It's surprising and shocking that we are still having students who are walking across the stage who really don't deserve to be and haven't earned that right," said Tim Callahan with the Professional Association of Georgia Educators, a group that represents more than 80,000 educators. Kenneth Jackson, 19, of Miami, enlisted in the Army after graduating from high school. He said passing the entrance exam is easy for those who paid attention in school, but blamed the education system for why more recruits aren't able to pass the test. "The classes need to be tougher because people aren't learning enough," Jackson said. This is the first time that the U.S. Army has released this test data publicly, said Amy Wilkins of The Education Trust, a Washington, D.C.-based children's advocacy group. The study examined the scores of nearly 350,000 high school graduates, ages 17 to 20, who took the ASVAB exam between 2004 and 2009. About half of the applicants went on to join the Army. Recruits must score at least a 31 out of 99 on the first stage of the three-hour test to get into the Army. The Marines, Air Force, Navy and Coast Guard recruits need higher scores. Further tests determine what kind of job the recruit can do with questions on mechanical maintenance, accounting, word comprehension, mathematics and science. The study shows wide disparities in scores among white and minority students, similar to racial gaps on other standardized tests. Nearly 40 percent of black students and 30 percent of Hispanics don't pass, compared with 16 percent of whites. The average score for blacks is 38 and for Hispanics is 44, compared to whites' average score of 55. Even those passing muster on the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery, or ASVAB, usually aren't getting scores high enough to snag the best jobs. "A lot of times, schools have failed to step up and challenge these young people, thinking it didn't really matter — they'll straighten up when they get into the military," said Kati Haycock, president of the Education Trust. "The military doesn't think that way." Entrance exams for the U.S. military date to World War I. The test has changed over time as computers and technology became more prevalent, and skills like ability to translate Morse code have fallen by the wayside. The test was overhauled in 2004, and the study only covers scores from 2004 through 2009. The Education Trust didn't request examine earlier data to avoid a comparison between two versions of the test, said Christina Theokas, the author of the study. The Army did not immediately respond to requests for further information. Tom Loveless, an education expert at the Brookings Institution think tank, said the results echo those on other tests. In 2009, 26 percent of seniors performed below the 'basic' reading level on the National Assessment of Education Progress. Other tests, like the SAT, look at students who are going to college. "A lot of people make the charge that in this era of accountability and standardized testing, that we've put too much emphasis on basic skills," Loveless said. "This study really refutes that. We have a lot of kids that graduate from high school who have not mastered basic skills." The study also found disparities across states, with Wyoming having the lowest ineligibility rate, at 13 percent, and Hawaii having the highest, at 38.3 percent. Retired military leaders say the report's findings are cause for concern. "The military is a lot more high-tech than in the past," said retired Air Force Lt. Gen. Norman R. Seip. "I don't care if you're a soldier Marine carrying a backpack or someone sitting in a research laboratory, the things we expect out of our military members requires a very, very well educated force." A Department of Defense report notes the military must recruit about 15 percent of youth, but only one-third are eligible. More high school graduates are going to college than in earlier decades, and about one-fourth are obese, making them medically ineligible. In 1980, by comparison, just 5 percent of youth were obese.


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migliore
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Posted on Tue, Dec 21, 2010 21:42

Quoting Bri:

 

Meanwhile we will have to admit that in the United States of America there is still no room in the inn for folks like Jesus.


With all due respect -- clearly you are a gracious and intelligent person -- in the US we have a right to our own opinions free of any requirement to admit anything we disagree with.  What I observe is that the United States is #1 on the list of refuge and asylum seekers everywhere. We are the most humane society in history and have received more rejects and castaways than any nation ever.

 

Americans give more than twice as much per capita to charity than any country in Europe.  We also volunteer and give of our time to a degree that makes us unique when compared to any other country with the possible exception of the Vatican.

 

Hospitality is an essential virtue, however, guests who demand we give them the keys to our car, free use of our house whenever they please and open access to our refrigerator and bank accounts do well to observe virtues themselves -- most notably graciousness and good manners.

 

If they find themselves out on the front stoop, door locked behind them, they have only their own presumptuousness and rude behavior to blame.  Americans efforts and sacrifices to uplift humanity are unparalleled -- ask any European or Filippino who was alive when our troops liberated their countries.

 

When you miss just how much we have accomplished by way of spreading freedom and prosperity throughout the world, you miss alot.  And speaking of gracious hospitality, may I introduce a "Wonder Woman" who millions have stayed up all night to catch a glimpse of...the one and only Lady of the Harbor.


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billzeke
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Posted on Tue, Dec 21, 2010 07:00

Well put CG. My sentiments exactly...

 



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Brittany2012
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Posted on Tue, Dec 21, 2010 05:36

 

 

 

 

As this article states, the Dream Act was first introduced in August, 2001---over 9 years later the problem has not gone away, in fact has escalated.  I realize this is a dead issue at this time, but I strongly believe sometime in the next 9 plus years it will be revisited.

 

 

 

I certainly agree that we are a country of laws and they should be obeyed, but why were these laws not being enforced over the years, why wait till these children are 17-18 year olds and then decide to deport them?  We have allowed these illegal children to be raised here in America as Americans, so I definitely feel we owe them the right to become law abiding citizens of the only country they know as home.

 

KILLING THE DREAM ACT: STILL NO ROOM IN THE INN

Written by Ryan J. Bell This article was posted on the Huffington Post, December 18, 2010

Today we witnessed another skirmish in the real "War on Christmas". As Christians all over the world celebrate the final weekend of Advent and prepare for Christmas in just one week, the U.S. Senate once more dashed the hopes of almost 2 million children and young adults, many of whom have lived in the United States all their lives. The Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors (DREAM) Act failed to pass a procedural vote today in the Senate. First introduced in Aug. 2001, the DREAM Act would allow the children of undocumented immigrants a path to legal residency by either going to college or enlisting in the military.

 

As the media prattles on about the so-called "War on Christmas" -- an ideological battle over terminology, at best -- people's lives hang in the balance. Actions speak louder than words. One way Christians can protect the place of Christmas in our society -- indeed, the credibility of Christianity more generally -- is by acting in harmony with its core principles: grace, welcome and hospitality.

 

But today there was no hospitality, no grace. I have no interest in the universal observance of Christmas in our religiously plural society, but for those who have placed their faith in Jesus, (and I assume some of our dissenting Senators are among them) Christmas took another blow. Those most concerned about preserving Christmas in our culture may want to take notice. Five Democratic Senators joined all but three Republicans in denying children brought to this country by their parents the chance to become legal residents by continuing their education or serving their new country in the military. This is as American as apple pie.

 

It is more than a little ironic that Jesus, within days of his birth, found himself immigrating to Egypt with his family to escape the tyranny of King Herod the Great who ordered the execution of all male children in Judea. Had he grown up in similar circumstances in our country, Jesus would have been the perfect candidate for the DREAM Act. Many of the children who come to this country without proper documentation, come for the same reason people have always come to the United States and for the same reasons Jesus fled to Egypt -- to escape poverty or physical danger (or both) and to seek better opportunities for themselves and their children. But it seems this Congress would sooner deport children in the name of securing our borders than give them a chance to contribute more effectively to the U.S. economy and a chance at the American Dream.

 

So this next week, as at least some of the 41 Senators who voted against the DREAM Act sing songs celebrating the birth of Jesus and shower one another with gifts they might bear in mind that Jesus lived and died for precisely the people who would most benefit from legislation like the DREAM Act. In fact, Jesus was one of those immigrant kids himself. Perhaps in the Christmas celebrations this week some might stumble across these words, recorded by Luke, on the lips of the Virgin Mary while pregnant with Jesus,

 

He has brought down rulers from their thrones
but has lifted up the humble.
He has filled the hungry with good things
but has sent the rich away empty (Luke 1:52-53).

 

Meanwhile we will have to admit that in the United States of America there is still no room in the inn for folks like Jesus.



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migliore
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Posted on Mon, Dec 20, 2010 19:51

Always interesting to me that despite all that I read about how unfairly, unjustly and unequally we treat aliens, they keep trying to get here and take great risks to do so.  Haven't heard of anyone crashing down the gates to get into Russia, China, Cuba, Iran, Venezuela or Japan for that matter.  Germany, sort of, and you know who got them back on their feet 65 years ago after the Nazis traumatized and plundered most of Europe.  (I know Germany has totally reformed and is a beacon of democracy now.)  

 

Point is that the United States has brought more freedom, liberty and prosperity to the far corners of the globe than any nation in history.  And we're the only truly multi-cultural society in history.  One of the keys to our freedom is the rule of law.  In other countries -- like Mexico, I'm sad to say -- power is ceded to mobs, gangs and political cliques, so that might becomes right.  Although perhaps well-intentioned, those who advocate backing down or looking the other way when they find it inconvenient to enforce laws only encourage contempt for due process and the rule of law.

 

Appeasement never wins.  Compromise is a fine art and yet there are principles we refuse to compromise.  There were those in Great Britain who advocated compromising with the Nazis -- thank goodness there was a Winston Churchill.  He had been warning about the threats posed by communism and fascism, yet he was ignored because his warnings demanded difficult steps be taken to preserve democracy.  Instead Neville Chamberlain compromised principle and gave the Sudetenland to the Nazis even though it was not his to give.  

 

We are ceding control of our borders today to hoodlums, druglords and scofflaws who seek to take advantage of and profit from our freedoms without a commitment to building our land.  Allowing them to subvert respect for law with the justification that we are being compassionate will backfire. Squandering resources to people who who lack understanding of or respect values we hold dear will only invite them to "trample (us) underfoot."  All it will do is hasten the day when there are " too many takers and not enough makers"  

 

Let's focus on encouraging countries south of our border to expand, protect and defend democracy so prosperity can grow and their citizens will have reason to stay.  Lets also revamp our immigration services to allow foreign workers we need to come the United States legally.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



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billzeke
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Posted on Mon, Dec 20, 2010 16:14

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one Britt. I welcome your thoughts. It's a complicated issue. I don't always watch FNC, Sometimes I watch CNN. 

We are a country of laws. When you don't obey them you suffer the consequences. I don't want to put them in jail, but I would deport them.

It's really a moot point as it did not pass. When the new Congress convenes in JAN. it won't even come up. It is DOA for the forseeable future.


I personally do not hire illegal immigrants even though it costs me more money to have work done. I would rather hire people that obey the laws and play by the rules.

I bet I could even get Shaz to agree with me on that. It would be a first. LOL. 

 

 



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Brittany2012
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Posted on Mon, Dec 20, 2010 14:23

Quoting billzeke:

So; if my father robs a bank and gives me the money; assuming I had no knowledge of the theft; I should get to keep the money.

 

 

 

Or; if my father boosts me through a window in your house when you're not looking, although it's no fault of mine, I should be able to live there.

 

 

 

Their issues should be with their parents who brought them into this country illegally and not with the American people. They should be thankful for the free education they have received and go home and help their own people.

 

 

 

We had amnesty once before. It did not work. Allowing them to stay would only encourage more people to enter illegally. Seal the borders and kick them out. Let them get in line and enter legally. If they are so fluent in English and have so many skills; it's achievable...



Bill,

 

We are more than likely going to end up agreeing to disagree on this one, but I will give you my thoughts on your rebuttal.  You did ask for anyone’s thoughts on this, didn’t you?

 

Every year, 65,000 youngsters who are here illegally graduate from high school to an uncertain future. They don't qualify for most scholarships, student loans or resident tuition rates; they also can't work here legally. Those who can afford tuition hesitate to apply for fear of being deported. With no ties to any other country, most end up staying and working underground. U.S. taxpayers, meanwhile, are deprived of the talent and legal labor of hundreds of thousands of young men and women they paid to school.

 

The Dream Act would have given those youngsters six years of conditional legal residency in which to attend college or enlist in the armed forces. They would have been eligible for federal loans and work study programs, but not for government education grants. After two years of college or military service, they could have gotten a green card, which would have allowed them to live and work here legally and apply for citizenship.

 

Only high school graduates (or GED holders) who qualified for college or military service would have been eligible.

 

The Dream Act was supported by business, religious and educational groups that recognized it as a net plus for the country. It would have helped young people get significantly better jobs, which translates into greater earning power, more tax revenue, more consumer spending — and less public money spent on health and social services. The U.S. Defense Department was also eager to tap this pool of top-quality recruits.

 

In answer to your questions:

 

So; if my father robs a bank and gives me the money; assuming I had no knowledge of the theft; I should get to keep the money.

NO—you should not be allowed to keep the money, but you should not and would not go to jail with him.

 

Or; if my father boosts me through a window in your house when you're not looking, although it's no fault of mine, I should be able to live there.

Your father boosting you through my window does not give you the right to live in my house, but I would not kick you to the curb.  I would see to it that you were properly taken care of.

 

Many of the kids have lived in this country for 17-18 years, they came here when they were only a few months old, so when you say they should go home—this is their home—they know no other home.  Illegal immigrants have lived in this country for many, many years, so I think it is somewhat delusional to think that they are just going to pack it up and leave tomorrow.  The borders do need to be secured, but that doesn’t seem to be happening now nor has it happened in the past---and since the past usually predicts the future, I don’t see it happening anytime soon. 

 

You said “Allowing them to stay would only encourage more people to enter illegally” and to that I can only say, “We have allowed them to stay, in some cases, for years and years”.

 

Do you really think that the majority of these kids are going to leave here because this did not pass?  No, they will follow in their parent’s footsteps securing low paying jobs, and perhaps committing crimes in order to eat.



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billzeke
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Posted on Mon, Dec 20, 2010 11:02

Quoting Brittany2012:

I am a firm believer that no child should be punished for the wrong-doings of their parents.  By this not passing, that is exactly what is happening to these children.

 

I'm not sure what the answer is--many of the kids have lived here since early childhood and know no other culture.  They have gone to public schools for years, attended our churches, shopped our stores, lived in our neighborhoods, may even be friends of our children and grandchildren--what is to happen to them?  I think to allow them to further their education and become productive citizens is the best solution.

 

Had they passed this and stipulated, no one illegally entering the US from this date forward would be granted this right, it would have at least taken care of the ones that have been here for years. 

 

 

 

 


So; if my father robs a bank and gives me the money; assuming I had no knowledge of the theft; I should get to keep the money.

 

 

 

Or; if my father boosts me through a window in your house when you're not looking, although it's no fault of mine, I should be able to live there.

 

 

 

Their issues should be with their parents who brought them into this country illegally and not with the American people. They should be thankful for the free education they have received and go home and help their own people.

 

 

 

We had amnesty once before. It did not work. Allowing them to stay would only encourage more people to enter illegally. Seal the borders and kick them out. Let them get in line and enter legally. If they are so fluent in English and have so many skills; it's achievable...


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Brittany2012
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Posted on Mon, Dec 20, 2010 10:22

I am a firm believer that no child should be punished for the wrong-doings of their parents.  By this not passing, that is exactly what is happening to these children.

 

I'm not sure what the answer is--many of the kids have lived here since early childhood and know no other culture.  They have gone to public schools for years, attended our churches, shopped our stores, lived in our neighborhoods, may even be friends of our children and grandchildren--what is to happen to them?  I think to allow them to further their education and become productive citizens is the best solution.

 

Had they passed this and stipulated, no one illegally entering the US from this date forward would be granted this right, it would have at least taken care of the ones that have been here for years. 

 

 

 

 



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billzeke
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Posted on Sun, Dec 19, 2010 20:41

Quoting jackbunny:

It would be a dream for them. Hence the Dream act. JK

Actually DREAM as in Dream Act means: "Development, Relief and Education of Alien Minors" Act.

 

 

It might be a nightmare for the rest of us. 

 

 

Deke... Congress is the only place where even when you are fired you get to stay on the job for a month or so longer.  



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jackbunny
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Posted on Sun, Dec 19, 2010 10:51

It would be a dream for them. Hence the Dream act. JK


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