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wwww12345
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Posted on Thu, Sep 16, 2010 23:09

search for the title of this blog for the full text here is a little info. A panel of national security experts who worked under Republican and Democratic presidents is urging the Obama administration to abandon its stance that Islam is not linked to terrorism, arguing that radical Muslims are using Islamic law to subvert the United States. In a report set for release today, the panel states that "it is vital to the national security of the United States, and to Western civilization at large, that we do what we can to empower Islam's authentic moderates and reformers." The study group, sponsored by the conservative-oriented Center for Security Policy, says in its report that proponents of advancing Islamic law mark the "crucial fault line" in Islam's internal divisions separating truly moderate Muslims, like the late Indonesian President Abdurrahman Wahid, from the large portion of the world's 1 billion Muslims who advocate imposing what they call Shariah law throughout the world. Mr. Wahid, who died in December, is a widely respected Muslim visionary who promoted pluralism in Indonesia, which has the world's largest population of Muslims. According to the report, proponents of Shariah are "Muslim supremacists" waging "civilization jihad" along with the Islamist terrorists engaged in violent jihad, like al Qaeda. The 19-member study group was led by retired Army Lt. Gen. William G. Boykin, deputy undersecretary of defense for intelligence in the George W. Bush administration, and retired Army Lt. Gen. Harry E. Soyster, Defense Intelligence Agency director from 1988 to 1991. Included in the team of former defense, law enforcement and intelligence officials were Clinton administration CIA Director R. James Woolsey and Andrew C. McCarthy, former assistant U.S. attorney in New York, a career counterterrorism prosecutor during the Clinton administration. Frank Gaffney, director of the Center for Security Policy, said the Obama administration's policy is based on an incorrect assumption. The Team B report seeks to expose flaws in anti-terror programs, including the policy of not referring to al Qaeda and similar groups as "Islamist" to avoid offending Muslims, he said. "What if it turns out that some of the people the Obama administration has been embracing are actually promoting the same totalitarian ideology and seditious agenda as al Qaeda, only they're doing it from White House Iftar dinners?" said Mr. Gaffney, referring to the daily meal eaten by Muslims to break their fast during Ramadan. The group of experts was modeled after the official CIA Team B, whose 1976 contrary analysis said U.S. intelligence assessments had underestimated Soviet nuclear forces. That Team B report led to the military buildup under the Reagan administration.


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wwww12345
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Posted on Thu, Sep 23, 2010 02:49

Search for Stakelbeck on Terror - The Muslim Brotherhood in America to understand the scope of the problem.


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shazbot82
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Posted on Wed, Sep 22, 2010 23:16

Quoting Curious2078:

Okay...you and I are about 90 million light years away in disagreement.

 

Shaz, I love you kiddo....let's  keep our communication totally "sans politics."  Otherwise you and I will just HATE each other.]

 

I love you......let's just keep it this way.  Clearly, we do not agree politically.  So be it.

 

Friends on a "friendship" level only.  Keep politics out of it.  I don't want to lose your friendship because we disagree politically.

 

Pat



Hi Pat,, no worries with us. I dont think I ever mentioned this to you,,but my beloved ex -finacee was a resident alien of Jakarta Indonesia for 25 years. I myself have visited the country for 22 days. All that i have written is both the offical stance of the Indonesian government and factual first hand experience. My BF was a major influential business person and had ties to both the current President , ( sorry this is phonetically spelled) Su-su-lee-o Bambang Yo-no-hart-o and the vice Pres Jophef Callia He had also gone to University with one of the sons of deposed Dictator So-hart-o. BF always emphasized that Indo WAS NOT in anyway accepting or encouraging of religious zealots of ANY kind or faith. Large portions of Indonesia are totally wild and undeveloped,,there are something like 13 thousand cays, atolls ,islands in the Indonesia Archipelago. There is no way to monitor them all ,so yes,,,sometimes radicals DO manage to set up camps and train etc. IF discovered,,they are rousted out,rounded up and taken into custody. THE everyday people of metropolitan Indo want and endorse a peaceful existence that is conducive to conducting business. Indo is a very moderate country. I would live there and be happy. The one huge thing that truly bothers me about Indo ( and its really dumb of me) is that the American TV they import consists of Fox News, Mtv, Americas Top Model, and Thats So Raven. They think American women are loose whores who run around mostly naked and have no modesty whatsoever ! When i was there and traveling alone, I found that i was far more accepted after I hired a Private Guide and a Driver. ( 20 $ a day including the car and gas !) Women in South East Asia do not travel alone and so i was suspect ! BUT,,I was treated very well by everyone I met and thoroughly enjoyed my time there. My guide Manday was very warm and kind,,he invited he to his home to meet his family and share a meal with them. We both had a great time on our travels and learned a great deal about both of our counties. PLease,,,,dont fall for the propaganda we are being fed about all muslim countries being crazed radicals. It simply is not true. Try reading those newspapers I mentioned. They can be wildly entertaining and very enlightening look into modern life as a moderate muslim.


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Curious2078
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Posted on Tue, Sep 21, 2010 18:56

Quoting shazbot82:

Pat, the term " moderate" means the same thing there as it does here. Indo is a modern country with no adherence to Sharia Law and no intention of allowing it to take hold in their country. Women are not oppressed, they do not have to wear a head scarf or veils, they work, drive and other wise are left to live as any other normal person does on a day to day basis. Indo does not make it a practice to exclude those of other faiths , or no faiths. They are against terrorists as much as the rest of us. Even more so because they are frequent targets. This is not to say that there ar not factions in the country who would like to over throw the democratically elected officials. and ,,the gov and way of life IS very different.They have an entirely differnt ehtics and its cmmon to hand out bribes and such to get Gov approval for things like building permits. THE OFFICAL stance is of course,that they discourage the practice and DO prosecute those who get to be outrageous. If youde life to read a bit on how modern life goes in Indonesia, look into these online newspapers " Jakarta Post & Asian Strait Times." Both are pretty interesting reads on any day.


Okay...you and I are about 90 million light years away in disagreement.

 

Shaz, I love you kiddo....let's  keep our communication totally "sans politics."  Otherwise you and I will just HATE each other.]

 

I love you......let's just keep it this way.  Clearly, we do not agree politically.  So be it.

 

Friends on a "friendship" level only.  Keep politics out of it.  I don't want to lose your friendship because we disagree politically.

 

Pat



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Curious2078
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Posted on Tue, Sep 21, 2010 18:52

Quoting wwww12345:

HOW DARE YOU even imply that Deke is my intellectual equal? Why he can't even spell his own name right (doofus) and even a doofus would know it will take a 12 pack to do the job.. thatshouldwakehissorryazzup lololo


GOTCHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  And my deepest apologies for erroneously implying that Deke is your intelletual equal

No one on here is your intelletual equal, WWWW.  No one at all.  So, so, so, sorry, my friend.

 

Pat

 

 



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shazbot82
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Posted on Mon, Sep 20, 2010 12:28

Pat, the term " moderate" means the same thing there as it does here. Indo is a modern country with no adherence to Sharia Law and no intention of allowing it to take hold in their country. Women are not oppressed, they do not have to wear a head scarf or veils, they work, drive and other wise are left to live as any other normal person does on a day to day basis. Indo does not make it a practice to exclude those of other faiths , or no faiths. They are against terrorists as much as the rest of us. Even more so because they are frequent targets. This is not to say that there ar not factions in the country who would like to over throw the democratically elected officials. and ,,the gov and way of life IS very different.They have an entirely differnt ehtics and its cmmon to hand out bribes and such to get Gov approval for things like building permits. THE OFFICAL stance is of course,that they discourage the practice and DO prosecute those who get to be outrageous. If youde life to read a bit on how modern life goes in Indonesia, look into these online newspapers " Jakarta Post & Asian Strait Times." Both are pretty interesting reads on any day.


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wwww12345
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Posted on Sun, Sep 19, 2010 18:31

Quoting Curious2078:

B, please tell Deke that notices on sixpacks is about the best idea I've ever heard!!!  I'd tell him myself, but as you might know, if you've been following the more asinine recent posts, I'm quite sure Deke would find fault with my comment and cut me to the quick with his insult.  Since I'm clearly no match for his most acerbic wit, and I wish to avoid extreme pain....I leave it to you....his intellectual equal....to forward the message....

 

Thanks,

 

Pat


HOW DARE YOU even imply that Deke is my intellectual equal? Why he can't even spell his own name right (doofus) and even a doofus would know it will take a 12 pack to do the job.. thatshouldwakehissorryazzup lololo


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Curious2078
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Posted on Sun, Sep 19, 2010 18:23

B, please tell Deke that notices on sixpacks is about the best idea I've ever heard!!!  I'd tell him myself, but as you might know, if you've been following the more asinine recent posts, I'm quite sure Deke would find fault with my comment and cut me to the quick with his insult.  Since I'm clearly no match for his most acerbic wit, and I wish to avoid extreme pain....I leave it to you....his intellectual equal....to forward the message....

 

Thanks,

 

Pat



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Curious2078
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Posted on Sun, Sep 19, 2010 18:07

Shaz, second thought:  Most seriuosly asking:  Could you tell us what "Moderate Muslim Values" are?

 

I'm serious....not being sarcastic.  I would really like to know....

 

Pat



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Curious2078
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Posted on Sat, Sep 18, 2010 19:45

Interesting post, Shaz.

 

Thank you.



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Curious2078
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Posted on Sat, Sep 18, 2010 17:28

B., I just tried to put up a post that quoted the definition of pluralism---religious pluralism---from Wikipedia.  The system bollixed up the post so badly--obviously quotes from Wikipedia are verbotin--I thought I'd destroyed the entire blog.  Striped wallpaper appeared for a few seconds!!!!!!!!  All gone now....

 

Okay...summary of what I said after the quote....minus the Wikipedia quote:  I haven't had time yet to look up the late Indonesian President Abdurrahman Wahid--whom, I confess I've never heard of before--but I will do so--and his ideas on religious pluralism.

 

Religious pluralism essentially means tolerance of other religions, acceptance of the idea that perhaps, just perhaps YOUR religion is not the ONE AND ONLY WAY TO GOD.   I am looking forward to discovering what Wahid has/had to say on this subject.  As it stands now, I can't imagine what his "visions" were; how they've worked, as it would seem that pluralism is entirely antithetical to the most fundamental tenets of Islam.  If, indeed, his visions have resulted in bringing Islam in Indonesia out of the Age of Barbarism into the Modern Age.....then there is HOPE.

 

Also, I think perhaps it is time that I found myself a legitimate, unwatered-down, un-Westernized-to-appease-Christians/Jews version, utterly honest, totally true English translation of the Qu'ran and read it for myself.  To date, my most important opinions regarding one of the supreme issues of "the day" are based on what others have said is written in the Qu'ran.  When I think about that, my positions seems quite untenable......

 

So, me thinks I will have to forgo that third pair of comfy shoes I want for this winter, stick with the basic black loafers and basic tan loafers, and put the money I've saved for the third pair of shoes toward the purchase of such a Qu'ran to learn first-hand, so to speak, exactly what it is I am talking about.  Some pretty heavy duty winter reading for sure....but, no doubt, well worth the effort if I want to be truly, truly informed.

 

Thanks for the blog, B.

 

Pat

 

 



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shazbot82
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Posted on Sat, Sep 18, 2010 11:55

having a good deal of personal experience in the subject, as well as having a very significant other who was a resident alien of Indonesia for 25 yrs,,,I can tell you this.. Indonesia is officially dedicated to MODERATE Muslim values and ARE actively engaged in remaining so. Radicals are known and tracked, though due to the 13 thousand islands in the Indo Archipeligo, they can hide ! Pres SBY IS a moderate who wants to keep Inod in the modern world and does NOT endorse Sharia Law nor its brutality. Terrorits DO hit Indo as a target with some degree of regularity. the goal being to bring chaos and fear. THe Government of Indo doesnt fool around with these people,,they execute them in short order after they are convicted. SO ,,just because a Nation IS Muslim, does NOT mean that they support or want to have this barbaric radical sect gain ANY foothold in their country. These people ARE our AlLies against a COMMON enemy !


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attaboy127
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Posted on Fri, Sep 17, 2010 08:36

Well 1234,

Not only security BUT our way of freedom is at stake.

God bless,

John   



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