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Curious2078
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Posted on Wed, Nov 25, 2009 18:14

I've been reading up on internet dating site etiquette--on this site and others--and it seems that the so-called experts [read: self-appointed experts]¿on the subject consider it very bad manners to query a prospective match about why he/she got divorced until you've gotten to know the prospect through many emails and then a face-to-face meeting.¿¿¿

¿

I'm inclined to disagree with these experts.¿ It seems to me that asking a prospective match why he/she got divorced early on¿is a very good question to ask.¿¿Why?¿ Because reading between the lines of the answer¿can usually be a very telling response that clues you in to whether or not you¿want to bother going any further with the party in question.

¿

Example:¿¿I ask a man why he got divorced:¿ His response:¿ I'd rather tell you later after we meet [read after we've met, I've had time to charm you and get you "on my side."¿ Never a good thing.¿ Don't want to ever have to take sides with him and his ex--or¿exes.¿ Don't want to get sucked into that misery.

¿

I ask a man why he got divorced:¿ His response:¿ The ex-wife was a bitch on wheels.¿ The ex-wife was a this...or a that.¿ The ex-wife was, in other words, completely to blame for the divorce.¿ Well.....ladies....and gents....we all know what we should do with anyone who lays the blame for a divorce totally on the the ex.¿¿Drop him/her like a hot potato.¿ Why?¿ He/she clearly¿can't take responsibility for his/her actions.¿ Very clear, very plain.¿ Only a hopeless romantic with NO realilty floating in to their thinking to¿color the equation with at least some modicum of truth¿could or would believe¿such an explanation held the entire truth.

¿

I ask a man why he got divorced:¿ His response:¿ He says--or hems and haws, it matters not....¿ Gives reasons why¿HE made a wrong choice from the get go.¿ Why HE screwed up the¿marriage.¿ What HE did wrong.¿ Doesn't say much at all about why his ex-wife screwed up.¿ Maybe acts a bit silly; shows obvious embarrassment; tries to weasel out of the explanation but makes it clear he's doing so to avoid making a bad impression....

¿

Now that is a man I want to keep talking to.¿ That is a man to whom I'm going to feel comfortable telling¿the reasons why I got divorced.¿

¿

And, just in case, anyone's interested, I got divorced because I married for very, very foolish reasons, married a man who was no where near as smart as I am,¿and I hurt him awfully by divorcing him.¿ Where¿he went into the marriage with an open mind and a loving heart, I went into it¿with a cornucopia of stupid, foolish reasons, almost none of which had anything to do with him as a person.¿ There was no way this marriage could last because there was no way this man could meet my emotional needs--and, deep in my heart, I knew that.¿ And yet I somehow thought/convinced myself¿I could make it work.¿¿[If anyone has a better definition for EMOTIONALLY¿STUPID BEYOND BELIEF, let me know...]

¿

All of this happened¿close to 40 years ago.¿ I haven't married for a second time--yet.¿ Opportunites have been there...but I¿was never sure of my own reasons for saying yes, so I said no.¿ Plus, I've never wanted children, and all these opportunities did.¿ So, again, another reason for saying no.¿ I've learned that there are certain basic needs and wants¿between people--if you know you can't fulfill the other's basic needs and wants--say goodbye.¿ Pretending, lying to yourself and to your prospective mate is utter bulls**t.¿ Get the basics out of the way up front at the beginning.¿ Otherwise, you're likely to fall into one of a hundred "traps" that you will, in the end, regret mightily.

¿

I hope the above has made some sense....and been of some use to at least one person out here on the blogs.

¿

Stay true to yourself; don't be seduced by words alone; always take whatever time is necessary to evaluate a prospective match with objectivity.¿ Easy to say, folks....not easy to do....good luck.

¿

Hoping for the loves of our lives to everyone out here, especially those I'm already friends with and trust.¿

Love from the lady in Lackawaxen [bet most of you can't pronounce it correctly....] and best wishes for your tomorrow's happiness.

¿

Pat, aka Squirrelly aka Curious2078

¿

¿

¿

¿¿¿

¿

¿¿¿¿¿¿¿



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Curious2078
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Posted on Sun, Nov 29, 2009 20:26

Quoting: Originally posted by onashir
Only a hopeless romantic with NO realilty floating in to their thinking. What is the point of being with someone other then madly being in love.When you head over heal. hopeless romantic is with Love and Romance is about.. here is my point it should not be reviewed/analyzed like a job application. I have better answer for your question. [If anyone has a better definition for EMOTIONALLY?STUPID BEYOND BELIEF, let me know...] You were head over heal, and you were thinking with your heart " but you should never feel{EMOTIONALLY?STUPID BEYOND BELIEF} I say you were lucky to have those kind of feelings with such a passion. Most people never get a chance to fall in love........ P.S. Excuse my poor English I just wanted ad my few words


Your words are most welcome.¿ However, if you re-read my blog carefully, you will see that I am talking about NOT having been madly in love.¿ I was NOT madly in love.¿ I was not in love with this man at all.¿ That is the whole point of my comment.¿ That and the fact that I was trying to convince myself that I was in love when I was not.¿ That is why I say:¿ EMOTIONALLY STUPID BEYOND BELIEF....¿

¿

Onashir, please understand, with the marriage I'm talking about here, I had none of the kinds of wonderful feelings you are talking about.¿ None of that passion.¿

¿

And, one further note:¿ No need to apologize for your English.¿ You have written here English that is better constructed than many people who have English as a first language use when writing here on the blogs.¿ And since you clearly have a good heart, I hope you will continue to make posts here...¿ Even start your own blog.¿ I suspect you have a lot of interesting thoughts to share.

¿

Pat¿



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Arizona53
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Posted on Fri, Nov 27, 2009 21:13

Thank you Pat, I am waiting patiently for someone who will do the Johnny Reid thing and "Dance With Me!"¿¿¿LOL!



"The best way to predict the future....Is to create it."

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Curious2078
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Posted on Fri, Nov 27, 2009 19:36

Quoting: Originally posted by boldnsexy

Curious,

Under "normal" circumstances I would never ask a man why he divorced but we are living in an age where the internet puts us in a position to ask questions we would not ordinarily ask.¿ I, like you, prefer to know up front what kind of person I am communicating with, I don't want to wait 3 or 4 months just to see that "mask" drop and meet the real person.

¿

However, in my experiences, you can find out all you want to know simply by listening to his tone when you bring up the subject of divorce or the ex.¿ You don't have to be specific.¿ Like Binhab said, there are always 3 sides to the story anyhow.¿ There is nothing worse¿ to me than a man who talks down his ex-wife, even if it is all her fault.

And for the record, I loved my ex-husband very much when I divorced him, it was a matter of whether I could convince him to get the help he needed for his "crack cocaine addiction".¿ I could not and so our love story had to end.¿ I am angry but not at him, I am angry at the situation that took him from me.



Hello BNS--

¿

The listening to his tone when you bring up the subject of divorce or the ex is pretty much where I was going with this thing.¿ Check out my next to latest comment to Arizona:¿ I think I explained myself pretty well there.¿ My mistake initially:¿ gotta get the whole thing out of the blame game frame where I originally had it...

¿

As for what you call my "blatant honesty:"¿ Thank you for your kind words.¿ What little I actually revealed just didn't seem like much to me...¿ As for being honest with¿ones-self.¿ That can often be the most difficult thing to do, and yet the most important, no?

¿

Oh, and the blog¿is staying up...

¿

Pat¿



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Curious2078
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Posted on Fri, Nov 27, 2009 18:54

Quoting: Originally posted by Conyersguy

OK, I agree, most mature individuals wiil find a way to take some of the blame, and I agree with your statement that it is a red flag when we don't....but I'll agree to disagree on that other 10 % of the cases....why falsely say it was ....on those rare occasions when it truly wasn't?? Sure, we appreciate the fact they look inward, but not at the expense of accuracy.??

.

And, Arizona, what is the acronym ESBB for?

.

:)

?

?



Hi, Conyers..

¿

I've decided I should have worded things a little differently because everyone is seeing a blame game going on, and that's not really what I intended.¿ It's my fault--entirely.¿ I did what I often do with an essay:¿ I zigzagged somewhere along the where instead of continuing in a straight line...

¿

The question should be "Why did you're marriage break up," not "Why did you get divorced."¿ Far less chance of putting the person on the defensive, and definitely does not try to to play the blame game.¿ You might want to view the next to last post I put in here addressed to Arizona.¿ I explain it fairly well there.

¿

Pat



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Curious2078
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Posted on Fri, Nov 27, 2009 18:47

Quoting: Originally posted by Arizona53

ESBB = Emotionally Stupid Beyond Belief......LMAO!¿ We've all probably experienced this.

¿

In answer to some of the other questions.¿ No I didn't know when we first dated that he was an alcoholic.¿ They say Love is blind, but I sometimes think when you are young its also really ESBB...LOL!¿ We went to parties, went to bars, and behaved just like all the rest of our friends.¿ His alcoholism appeared later when the parties became fewer as people got older, had children, and stayed home.¿ I later also found out that many of his family members were also alcoholics (and still are, as he is), but, we didn't live any where near them so I would be hard pressed to know that either.

¿

In all honesty if we had waited another year before getting married, I probably wouldn't have married him at all.¿ I am thankful, grateful, and downright happy, however, that I have 2 wonderful children, and a brilliant and beautiful grand daughter,¿gifts I may not have received if I hadn't made this error in judgement!¿ All good things come.....eventually!



Nicely done, Arizona.

¿

I hope your Mr. right comes along very soon.¿ You seem like a fine lady.¿¿I'm sure he's out there searching for you; he just hasn't run into you yet.

¿

Pat

¿

¿



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Curious2078
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Posted on Fri, Nov 27, 2009 18:39

Quoting: Originally posted by Arizona53

Hey Squirrelly, now we have a new acronym....ESBB....and we can LOL about it at Sophia's gig!? I have had a couple of those ESBB's since my divorce but thankfully was not married to them....LMAO!

On a more serious note, I got divorced for a whole bunch of reasons, some his problem and some mine, but if you count alcoholic as one of his, mine look really trivial.? It can be, I think an uneven field for whose fault it is.....I had trouble living with an alcoholic and he had trouble thinking that there was something wrong with being an alcoholic and spending more than you make in month on?booze!?? Oops?I forgot we're not supposed to talk about this....LOL!?



Hi, Arizona.

Not sure what you thinks we're not supposed to talk about....

Rough gig, living with an alcoholic.¿ Glad you're out of that one.¿ Using you situation as an example, if I asked a man why he got divorced and he said his wife was an alcoholic....there's all kinds of ways he can say that.¿ He can say it with anger and bitterness.¿ Not a good sign.¿ Or he can say it somewhat resignedly, somewhat sadly...¿ Good sign.¿

¿

So what I'm learning here from my own blog is that I shouldn't have set it up with the "blame game" in mind--or with the "whose fault is it" premise because the real issue isn't about blame or fault.¿ It's all about how someone reacts to being asked why his marriage broke up.¿

¿

Yup:¿ Much better question:¿ "Why did you're marriage break up," as opposed to "Why did you get divorced."¿ It would solicit, very often, a different answer.¿ Plus it isn't so likely to put someone on the defensive.¿

¿

How say YOU?

¿

¿



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Arizona53
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Posted on Fri, Nov 27, 2009 11:05

ESBB = Emotionally Stupid Beyond Belief......LMAO!¿ We've all probably experienced this.

¿

In answer to some of the other questions.¿ No I didn't know when we first dated that he was an alcoholic.¿ They say Love is blind, but I sometimes think when you are young its also really ESBB...LOL!¿ We went to parties, went to bars, and behaved just like all the rest of our friends.¿ His alcoholism appeared later when the parties became fewer as people got older, had children, and stayed home.¿ I later also found out that many of his family members were also alcoholics (and still are, as he is), but, we didn't live any where near them so I would be hard pressed to know that either.

¿

In all honesty if we had waited another year before getting married, I probably wouldn't have married him at all.¿ I am thankful, grateful, and downright happy, however, that I have 2 wonderful children, and a brilliant and beautiful grand daughter,¿gifts I may not have received if I hadn't made this error in judgement!¿ All good things come.....eventually!



"The best way to predict the future....Is to create it."

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onashir
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Posted on Fri, Nov 27, 2009 05:24

Only a hopeless romantic with NO realilty floating in to their thinking. What is the point of being with someone other then madly being in love.When you head over heal. hopeless romantic is with Love and Romance is about.. here is my point it should not be reviewed/analyzed like a job application. I have better answer for your question. [If anyone has a better definition for EMOTIONALLY?STUPID BEYOND BELIEF, let me know...] You were head over heal, and you were thinking with your heart " but you should never feel{EMOTIONALLY?STUPID BEYOND BELIEF} I say you were lucky to have those kind of feelings with such a passion. Most people never get a chance to fall in love........ P.S. Excuse my poor English I just wanted ad my few words


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Curious2078
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Posted on Thu, Nov 26, 2009 20:07

My computer just went wacky!!!¿ My reply went off into cyberspace somewhere where MM bloggers cannot possibly reach it....¿ Who knows who's reading what I wrote.....¿ Martians/Venusians/.....angels of God....¿ It's off their somewhere....

¿

I'm TRYING to reply to Arizona.¿ Start:

¿

No, no, no.¿ First, I really want to know what ESBB is without going to my lovely Sophia's blog...

¿

Next--be really honest here--even if only with yourself.¿ Was your ex an alcoholic when you married/got together with him, or did he develop that trouble after you married him??¿ oh, shit:¿ that sounds as though I might be blaming you for his alcoholism;¿

¿

ARIZONA:¿ In no way, no way never, no possible way posssible, at no time ever in all of eternity...utterly not ever would I ever blame any woman for her man's alcoholism!!!!!!!!¿ Just so we're clear on that.¿ Nobody's alcoholism can be blamed on anyone but the alcoholic.¿ [unless you're talking about a 12 year old or someone even younger who got hooked by a parent, older friend, some stupid relative....]

¿

Mine [most significant other] ¿was an alcoholic before I moved in with him.¿ I "chose" to overlook it.¿ I spent years pretending that wasn't true...but it was.¿

¿

On another note:¿ This blog is starting to shape up as something I'm trying to hold over everyone's head about their own mistakes....if that makes much sense....very tired here....very cigarette deprived, very not-smoking, nicotine withdrawal....¿ Getting really weird, if the truth be told...so I might be [probably am] a bit [ha, ha, ha] too intense.... Not explaining myself well at all....

¿

Going back to the beginning of your post, Arizona:¿ In all honesty, did you ever have even the tiniest bit of a clue that you were marrying/getting thoroughly involved with, an alcoholic?¿

¿

I know that question sounds like I'm a lawyer trying to put you, a witness against my client, up against the wall:¿ I dont' mean it that way.¿ I really don't.¿¿ I'm just curious.¿ And, honestly, I don't require/expect an answer from you.¿

¿

As far as putting all of this in the perspective of my original question on this blog....I would bet that we could have as many different answers to this question¿as we will ever have people reading the question.

¿

The question.....the answers.....the blog was to get everyone thinking.¿ Get ME thinking.¿¿ And clearly it has done¿THAT!!!¿¿But, apparently, I've also hit everyone's "defensive,"¿or "anger" button....a move, the results of¿which, I wasn't, and still am not, prepared to deal with.

¿

So.....I will leave this blog up here for now--no delete yet.¿ Who knows, some¿genius may come along who can explain "everything" all of us have raised here.¿¿In the meantime--please, everyone--take a deep breath and relax.¿ I'm afraid I've caused a furor I never intended to cause....nevertheless, all your comments are most interesting to me....and I thank all of you for them.

¿

Pat¿¿¿¿¿¿



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Arizona53
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Posted on Thu, Nov 26, 2009 18:57

Hey Squirrelly, now we have a new acronym....ESBB....and we can LOL about it at Sophia's gig!¿ I have had a couple of those ESBB's since my divorce but thankfully was not married to them....LMAO!

On a more serious note, I got divorced for a whole bunch of reasons, some his problem and some mine, but if you count alcoholic as one of his, mine look really trivial.¿ It can be, I think an uneven field for whose fault it is.....I had trouble living with an alcoholic and he had trouble thinking that there was something wrong with being an alcoholic and spending more than you make in month on¿booze!¿¿ Oops¿I forgot we're not supposed to talk about this....LOL!¿



"The best way to predict the future....Is to create it."

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Binhab
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Posted on Thu, Nov 26, 2009 07:40

Hey you all...I agree with everything said BUT some people just tend to try to justify their actions or lack or it and to every story there will be always 3 sides...his , hers and the truth ! So I guess it helps to ask but only time will show people's true colors .... I am giving up on this site ! There is no worst thing then old guys playing games....retard ! Anyway..good luck to everyone and don't take things too serious...just be happy everyday...the RIGHT one will find you ! I am not searching no more...I'm just making new friends ! Happy thanksgiving to all ! BB ps: The picture is from my baby love Boo..the only one that showed me to deserve to sleep with me every night so far...lol

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Curious2078
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Posted on Thu, Nov 26, 2009 05:29

Hi, Conyers.

¿

Your opinion is always welcome.

¿

You're so right.¿ There is that ugly matter of¿the cheater who devastates a relationship when the truth comes out.¿ I think, though, that even when a man¿"blames" the ex in a case like that, if he's¿a man who does take responsibility for his own actions, he's more likely to phrase it in such a way that his good character is going to show through.¿ And in the discussion that follows, he's more than likely to find a way to take some responsibility--more so than rightly belongs to him, no doubt--in some way for her having cheated on him.¿ Even if, as I said, he was 100% percent not to blame.¿ So it's a matter of not just¿hearing the¿spoken words, but of reading between the lines, as it were.¿ Tone of voice, etc.¿ Those things¿often speak volumes.¿

¿

More to the point, though, is that the issue for me isn't¿one of who's to blame for what as it is to find out how the man feels about the breakup and his role in it, regardless of what the reasons were.

¿

To address your specific disagreement, that it shouldn't always be a rainout when one or the other party says it was all the other person's fault, I still hold with my original statement for the reasons I just stated.¿ An out and out "It was all her fault," or "It wasn't any fault of mine, I can tell you that" says pretty clealy that the speaker is quite likely to be someone who looks for other people to blame when things go wrong in his life.¿ Or, he's still angry and hurt and not over her yet.¿ Or he's just a dunderhead who never looks beneath the surface of things, including--and most especially--below his his own¿surface and into his soul.¿

¿

Either way,¿I would have learned all I need to know to know I should move on.

¿

Happy Turkey Day

¿

Pat



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