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Diana33...
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Posted on Mon, Jan 13, 2014 22:46

Quoting wwww12345:

Oil companies have periods of good years and bad years.  If Saudi drops the price of their oil very much the locals start losing money. The Saudi production cost is about $3 per bbl. Domestic oil production cost is probably close to $90. In the 80's many domestic production companies went bankrupt because of a flooded supply.  Since oil is a STRATEGIC and critical war supply product it is best we keep the locals producting.

Someday, just for grins, you should look up the profit the oil companies  make on a gallon of gas and then compare that to taxes paid per gallon..I think taxes are about 6 times the profit now.   Would you like another couple of dollars tax per gallon, like they do in Europe?

 


Well ya know WWWW, I've been watching this whole Bridgegate thing going on in NJ.  But the thing I was wondering.....is WHY are all those people driving cars trying to get across that bridge????  Don't we have some other options for getting around in this country....besides driving cars?  Why isn't anyone asking that question?



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wwww123...
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Posted on Mon, Jan 13, 2014 20:10

Quoting Diana3316:

WWWW, I'm so glad you brought that up about the 'other' taxes paid besides Federal.  The working poor and elderly.......aka "the 47%"......also pay those same 'other' taxes.

The oil companies are doing just fine!  They have plenty of customers!!!  I wouldn't shed a tear if they had to pay more taxes. 

 

But if I had the power....the first thing I would do is implement a user fee on Wall Street trades!!!  Even if we charged them a penny a trade.....it would generate billions!

And btw...I will drive 5 miles out of my way not to shop at Walmart.  I boycott Hobby Lobby as well.



Oil companies have periods of good years and bad years.  If Saudi drops the price of their oil very much the locals start losing money. The Saudi production cost is about $3 per bbl. Domestic oil production cost is probably close to $90. In the 80's many domestic production companies went bankrupt because of a flooded supply.  Since oil is a STRATEGIC and critical war supply product it is best we keep the locals producting.

Someday, just for grins, you should look up the profit the oil companies  make on a gallon of gas and then compare that to taxes paid per gallon..I think taxes are about 6 times the profit now.   Would you like another couple of dollars tax per gallon, like they do in Europe?

 



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Posted on Mon, Jan 13, 2014 06:25

Quoting Diana3316:


Roc, I'm sorry you felt my response was superflous....so, I will conceed there were too many words, but I really must Object to your use of the word "fact".  Your graphs depict nothing of the kind.  Why... you don't even document the source of the data.  If you don't provide the source, it has zero credibility. 

Let me try to restate my most basic questions: 

What type of non-military, non-degreed jobs are they comparing to a private sector job???  What are the job descriptions please and are they comparible?   You infer they are, but unless you reveal the data source, I'm not confident of the methology of the comparison.  A security worker in a mall is not the same as a Homeland Security, security worker.  I would think the training and responsibility of the two jobs are vastly different.   

The government standardizes pay no matter the region.  The private sector, non-degreed person can make vastly different wages in Georgia vs California.  Does the source of your data adjust for the downward skewing due to geographical variances of wages in the private sector?


The gov does not standardize pay regardless of the region.  In Houston, for example,  you get a location pay that is a extra 25%. The location pay is suppose to make the gov competitive in hiring and retaining workers and is based upon the salary rates in the area, NOT on the cost of the living in a area.. As a result, the Houston area civil servants make out great but the CS in San Fran or NY starve.  In general a CS job is a good job in most of the US but horribly underpaid in high paying, high cost areas like Silicon Valley, most of Calif, NY, etc..The reason the CS in Houston get paid more is because of the saleries at the oil companies, which are quite well considering the low cost of living.



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Diana33...
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Posted on Sun, Jan 12, 2014 09:11

Quoting wwww12345:


@D....You are thinking like the person that goes shopping for underwear and plastic at Wal Mart..  Try thinking like a corporation which is trying to decide if they want to borrow and invest in a $650 million dollar off shore oil drilling rig, or one wanting to buy a million dollar piece of mining equipment or buy a supercomputer and big data storage farm... all of which needs to be paid for out of "greedy corporate profits".
The Wal Mart shoppers do not buy oil rigs or supercomputers and believe it or not that is where the big money is for workers. High dollar products can pay high dollar wages for SKILLED workers as long as they have CORPORATE CUSTOMERS who have some money left after taxes.. Now, do you really want to tax the corporations out of business?
Now why don't you point out that some corporations pay no taxes, so I can point out that they pay sales, city, county, state, school, hospital district, flood control district, fuel tax, phone tax, college district taxes and thousands of other "taxes" for permits, fees, inspections, etc..  Federal Taxes are just a drop in the bucket compared to all of the other taxes they pay. There is no corporation in this country that is not paying tons of taxes as long as they have their doors open and even have to pay all of the property taxes after the doors are shut.

 


WWWW, I'm so glad you brought that up about the 'other' taxes paid besides Federal.  The working poor and elderly.......aka "the 47%"......also pay those same 'other' taxes.

The oil companies are doing just fine!  They have plenty of customers!!!  I wouldn't shed a tear if they had to pay more taxes. 

 

But if I had the power....the first thing I would do is implement a user fee on Wall Street trades!!!  Even if we charged them a penny a trade.....it would generate billions!

And btw...I will drive 5 miles out of my way not to shop at Walmart.  I boycott Hobby Lobby as well.



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Diana33...
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Posted on Sun, Jan 12, 2014 08:50

Quoting 3345roc:

I suspect you might have missed the point.  The following graph shows the wages but doesn't include the value of the benefit package.  It, like the first one, is a fairly easy graph to understand.  While I appreciate the time you took to voice your opinions on a wide variety of topics they are superflous and they don't refute the facts depicted by the graphs posted. 



Roc, I'm sorry you felt my response was superflous....so, I will conceed there were too many words, but I really must Object to your use of the word "fact".  Your graphs depict nothing of the kind.  Why... you don't even document the source of the data.  If you don't provide the source, it has zero credibility. 

Let me try to restate my most basic questions: 

What type of non-military, non-degreed jobs are they comparing to a private sector job???  What are the job descriptions please and are they comparible?   You infer they are, but unless you reveal the data source, I'm not confident of the methology of the comparison.  A security worker in a mall is not the same as a Homeland Security, security worker.  I would think the training and responsibility of the two jobs are vastly different.   

The government standardizes pay no matter the region.  The private sector, non-degreed person can make vastly different wages in Georgia vs California.  Does the source of your data adjust for the downward skewing due to geographical variances of wages in the private sector?



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Posted on Sat, Jan 11, 2014 20:24

Quoting Diana3316:

WWWW, I am not a communist.  But I know enough to know that profits are not created by cuts.  Profits are created by customers.... with money in their pockets to spend.



@D....You are thinking like the person that goes shopping for underwear and plastic at Wal Mart..  Try thinking like a corporation which is trying to decide if they want to borrow and invest in a $650 million dollar off shore oil drilling rig, or one wanting to buy a million dollar piece of mining equipment or buy a supercomputer and big data storage farm... all of which needs to be paid for out of "greedy corporate profits".
The Wal Mart shoppers do not buy oil rigs or supercomputers and believe it or not that is where the big money is for workers. High dollar products can pay high dollar wages for SKILLED workers as long as they have CORPORATE CUSTOMERS who have some money left after taxes.. Now, do you really want to tax the corporations out of business?
Now why don't you point out that some corporations pay no taxes, so I can point out that they pay sales, city, county, state, school, hospital district, flood control district, fuel tax, phone tax, college district taxes and thousands of other "taxes" for permits, fees, inspections, etc..  Federal Taxes are just a drop in the bucket compared to all of the other taxes they pay. There is no corporation in this country that is not paying tons of taxes as long as they have their doors open and even have to pay all of the property taxes after the doors are shut.

 



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Diana33...
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Posted on Sat, Jan 11, 2014 09:07

Quoting wwww12345:

My My,  your communism agenda is showing isn't it.  Tell you what, would you mind showing the number of corporations that have totally gone out of business in the last 7 years.. because of lack of any profit at all.   I think you will find that in some states they have lost about 50% of their manufacturers..  If you really want to get your eyes open look at how many high tech manufacturing companies are no longer in business, like DEC, UNIVAC, Burroughs, Control Data, Compac, Amdhal, and a thousand others less well known. Being a corporation is risky business and the people who finance them win sometimes but can lose big time. It's not like owning a gravel pit, which will probably always have some value. Stocks are paper and they can become just that, paper, in a heartbeat. Just ask me....I have a thousand shares that use to be worth $20 K that I will sell you for $100.



WWWW, I am not a communist.  But I know enough to know that profits are not created by cuts.  Profits are created by customers.... with money in their pockets to spend.



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Diana33...
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Posted on Sat, Jan 11, 2014 08:49

Quoting 3345roc:

The reason that the private sector can do a job and make a profit is illustrated below by comparing the total compensation paid in each sector.  These are averages.  People with degrees( Bachelors, Masters and PhDs) have comparable salaries but non degreed people with lower skill levels receive higher pay than their private sector counterparts.  The gap becomes even wider when you add in the cost of the benefits received.  On average, a private sector employee receives approximately $10.000 in benefits while the Federal employess benefit package is estimated at $30,000.

The profit motive spurs productivity and efficiency.  A private sector employee is 5 times as like to be fired for poor performance as a Federal employee and the turnover rate is almost nil at the Fed level.  Canada has privatized it's Air Traffic controllers and Germany has privatized it's Post office in order to save money.

The blue (Civilian) line represents a Fedral employee doing a civilian type job. The Military is excluded.

I'd rather pay fewer taxes even if it meant some company made a profit and gave it's CEO a bonus.... guess I'm just old fashioned that way.

 



Indeed Roc, I can understand why you would not want to post such a graph….as I can imagine the picture would be quite grotesque. 

 

So let’s take a moment to compare you apples to apples graph then.  What’s been going on in this country since the year 2000?  Hmmm….the World Trade Center was blown up, a war in Iraq, a war in Afghanistan, a financial collapse to name the big 4.  A couple of observations/questions:

 

·         Since higher educated positions pay comparable in both arenas, what type of government jobs are there that only require a high school education?  Maybe a TSA agent…or a Port Authority inspector?  Are these type of “apples” the same “apples” as a security guard at say the local mall in Georgia???

 

·         “The profit motive spurs productivity and efficiency.  Whose???  Not the workers if those profits are not shared in the form of better wages.  

 

·         “A private sector employee is 5 times as like to be fired for poor performance as a Federal employee and the turnover rate is almost nil at the Fed level.”  A private sector employee is also 100 times as likely to be fired/laid-off for profit motives.  And just as an aside, prior to the ACA….in this country when you lose your job, you lose your health insurance.  Example:  In 2011, Medicare implemented a bundled form of payment for the clinics we service.  In other words my independently owned company no longer bills Medicare directly, resulting in our revenue dropping by 50%.  My department used to be 18 employees and now we’re 5 to cover the entire country.  Those workers lost their private sector jobs due to profits, not because they were doing a bad job.  Do you think I do as effective a job training the nurses and technicians that provide your healthcare, when I now cover over 100 different clinics?  Don’t tell me the government doesn’t create jobs.

 

·         “I'd rather pay fewer taxes even if it meant some company made a profit and gave it's CEO a bonus…”  Not me.  Because I know MANY of those government employees with good paying jobs are providing a service to ME and my community.   Whether it is inspecting the food we eat, ensuring oil companies are complying with safety regulations, making sure bombs and dangerous people are not getting into this country, our children are educated, our fires are being fought, our streets are patrolled by adequately trained police.  Those reasonably paid workers can then afford to take care of themselves and pump that money back into the economy.  If giving corporations and CEOs more and more money created jobs…..this country should be awash in jobs galore!

 

I have nothing against companies making a profit and CEOs making a lot of money.  But how much is enough?  How many yachts does one person need?  Shouldn’t there be some kind of social contract with workers that if the company does well, that they too will be able to feed their family, afford to purchase a home, educate their children and retire in dignity; not in poverty?  Trickle-down economics is a social experiment that has been an abject failure!


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wwww123...
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Posted on Sat, Jan 11, 2014 03:15

Quoting Diana3316:

Would you be so kind to post a graph showing worker wages vs corporate profits?



My My,  your communism agenda is showing isn't it.  Tell you what, would you mind showing the number of corporations that have totally gone out of business in the last 7 years.. because of lack of any profit at all.   I think you will find that in some states they have lost about 50% of their manufacturers..  If you really want to get your eyes open look at how many high tech manufacturing companies are no longer in business, like DEC, UNIVAC, Burroughs, Control Data, Compac, Amdhal, and a thousand others less well known. Being a corporation is risky business and the people who finance them win sometimes but can lose big time. It's not like owning a gravel pit, which will probably always have some value. Stocks are paper and they can become just that, paper, in a heartbeat. Just ask me....I have a thousand shares that use to be worth $20 K that I will sell you for $100.



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Diana33...
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Posted on Fri, Jan 10, 2014 10:29

Quoting 3345roc:

I guess the blog Nazis think this graph is pornographic because they removed it.

 

WOW!!!!



Would you be so kind to post a graph showing worker wages vs corporate profits?



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NovemberJulie...
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Posted on Thu, Jan 09, 2014 05:34

I agree, it sends shivers down my spine each time I hear ads on the radio with advice for the elderly on how to stay warm in the winter and advising them to reduce the heat so they can afford the bills. It's disgusting, I always feel like a jerk afterwards for walking around the house feeling comfortable at 20 C when they advise 17-18 for the old people... It is hard to imagine what real poverty feels like when you never had a life and death situation over paying bills or not having food. 

To my cautiousness and luck I have never had to experience either, but I'd still rather not imagine living in America ,being so old and vulnerable to what my peers might decide is best for me to feel in terms of warmth or hunger...

 

America is a great nation and a great example, people would pretty much sell their own mother to get the chance to live there legally. As that cheesy saying goes... "With great power comes great responisibility", America appears to underperform... 



I have a dog. I run my own finishing school and I take prisoners

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Posted on Wed, Jan 08, 2014 17:35

WWWW~  fyi more real life stats:  Tonight I talked to my 89 yr old mother and asked her how much she pays for insurance.  As we all know, Medicare only pays 80% of charges, so she has to buy a secondary plan out of pocket.  $2600/yr or $215/month is what she pays...due to her age.  That's for her secondary coverage!  She gets $900/mon in Social Security...that's it, but she's one of the fortunate ones to get even that. 

 

The GOP who are fighting tooth and nail to get this life sustaining benefit cut, must have ice in their veins....that's all I can say.  I can't stop thinking about all the poor old people just trying to keep the heat turned on in their homes.  Poverty in this country is REAL.  Blaming and shaming poor people is no way for the greatest nation on earth to act....or to solve the problem!



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Diana33...
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Posted on Wed, Jan 08, 2014 08:32

Quoting wwww12345:

@ November.... that was $400 per month, not per year.

@Diana... I can't believe you are in the health care profession. We already have "death pannels" in medicare and medicaid..  For instance, if you need to stay in the hospital a month for severe pneumonia, how many days will medicaid or medicare pay for? Who pays the rest..  Same for any operation that has complications... if they are allowed to say in the hospital, who pays for the rest of the care?  What happens to the patient if they are discharged too early?   Why are thousands of doctors refusing or limiting their medicare and medicaid patients. Why do the corner emergency care totally refuse those patients. Why are some hospitals refusing Obamacare patients...  I think you better wake up and quit smelling the obamdrugs.

 One more thing, do you actually think that the gov had handle the admistrative paperwork, cut checks, check for fraud cheaper that a insurance company can do the same for?  If you think the administrative cost of the gov will be cheaper or better then you are really smoking something strange.  Can our system be improved, for instance for pre-existing conditions.. Sure it can.  Should a young women of baby making age pay more for insurance that a 55 year old person, Well of  course she should if the historical numbers say so..


 WWWW~ Well $400/month is EXACTLY what my insurance has been costing even before the ACA and it was going up every year!!  Every year the increases were being pushed down to the employee in the form of increased co-pays for doctor visits, prescription drugs and ER visits.  Last year I paid $1200 and my company paid $1200/yr just for me..employee-only coverage.  My company "contributes" $2400/yr for family coverage.  I don't know what the family actually has to pay, but I'm sure it is at least $2400 = likely total $5000/yr.  I know this is true because we just had a meeting on this and they told us they would "continue" to contribute at those levels.

Indeed, you are right about the so called "death panels" in the form of bundled payments and length of stay limits for Medicare patients....and they're called DRGs.  Do you want to know who implemented this form of payment?????  President Reagan in the 80s!  I was there!!!  All the demagoguery engaged by the Right and that dumb Dora from Alaska is truly offensive.

Do I like Obamacare?  No, and I hope to find time to write about it later.  There are many things that need to be improved, but I have no faith the current congress can/Will do anything to help the people?  The Republicans have proven to be absolutely insolent and intellectually bankrupt.  They will do nothing to help do anything for this country.  They are only interested in corporations.

I absolutely have more faith in the government doing the right thing for people's healthcare than I do the evil empire.... called the insurance companies! 

BTW....the ONLY reason my father is still alive today, totally bedridden, being cared for with dignity and love in his own home at age 93......is because of the benefits and support the Veterans Administration provides!!!  Neither his Medicare or his secondary private insurance would pay for the home care he gets.  That really is the government at work AND it's socialized medicine. 



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NovemberJulie...
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Posted on Wed, Jan 08, 2014 08:03

Quoting wwww12345:

@ November.... that was $400 per month, not per year.

@Diana... I can't believe you are in the health care profession. We already have "death pannels" in medicare and medicaid..  For instance, if you need to stay in the hospital a month for severe pneumonia, how many days will medicaid or medicare pay for? Who pays the rest..  Same for any operation that has complications... if they are allowed to say in the hospital, who pays for the rest of the care?  What happens to the patient if they are discharged too early?   Why are thousands of doctors refusing or limiting their medicare and medicaid patients. Why do the corner emergency care totally refuse those patients. Why are some hospitals refusing Obamacare patients...  I think you better wake up and quit smelling the obamdrugs.

 One more thing, do you actually think that the gov had handle the admistrative paperwork, cut checks, check for fraud cheaper that a insurance company can do the same for?  If you think the administrative cost of the gov will be cheaper or better then you are really smoking something strange.  Can our system be improved, for instance for pre-existing conditions.. Sure it can.  Should a young women of baby making age pay more for insurance that a 55 year old person, Well of  course she should if the historical numbers say so..



Yes, I understood it was per month too, which is why I said it was exorbitant per year to pay 5000 USD. That's almost 250 000 USD in an average life, presuming that as a minor you are covered by parents' cover? 

 

Anyway, I think it is a disgrace to charge women more because they are of baby making age.

Don't babies also have a FATHER? Are men charged extra based on the volume of potential baby making sperm that they produce? Clearly not everybody wants or can have babies but to presume it is entirely a "fault" of  the woman for burdening the system with claims , that is hysterical. 

 

Maybe the problem in itself is that the hospitals charge so much for basically the same services as the rest of the world has at a lower price. Maybe the insurance company are not the main evil since they pay the bills, however refusal to pay the bills or trickery of patients to deny care is higly condemnable . 

Why do drugs cost so much in the USA? My parents are both pharmacists and have worked in research field and I know first hand that my country, with it's basic pharma  industry produces the SAME drugs at a cost of 5-10 USD maximum for the patient , so it is clearly possible,  whilst in the USA i was charged for that same prescription 240 USD!!  

 

Maybe those are the groups that need targeting and levelling out. Hospital charges and cost of drugs. 

 

2500 USD for a day in hospital?  just basic bed charge , without any investigations , goodness ....



I have a dog. I run my own finishing school and I take prisoners

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wwww123...
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Posted on Tue, Jan 07, 2014 20:45

@ November.... that was $400 per month, not per year.

@Diana... I can't believe you are in the health care profession. We already have "death pannels" in medicare and medicaid..  For instance, if you need to stay in the hospital a month for severe pneumonia, how many days will medicaid or medicare pay for? Who pays the rest..  Same for any operation that has complications... if they are allowed to say in the hospital, who pays for the rest of the care?  What happens to the patient if they are discharged too early?   Why are thousands of doctors refusing or limiting their medicare and medicaid patients. Why do the corner emergency care totally refuse those patients. Why are some hospitals refusing Obamacare patients...  I think you better wake up and quit smelling the obamdrugs.

 One more thing, do you actually think that the gov had handle the admistrative paperwork, cut checks, check for fraud cheaper that a insurance company can do the same for?  If you think the administrative cost of the gov will be cheaper or better then you are really smoking something strange.  Can our system be improved, for instance for pre-existing conditions.. Sure it can.  Should a young women of baby making age pay more for insurance that a 55 year old person, Well of  course she should if the historical numbers say so..



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NovemberJulie...
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Posted on Tue, Jan 07, 2014 15:58

Wow Diana, 

that sounds UN BE LIE VA BLE !! 

i bet they justify the gender differential premium as justified by statistics... It makes me sick when I see they do the same here for women drivers for example.  Young women are presumed worse drivers than young men, but then over 30 years of age women drivers are safer than men as they are presumed not to speed and be cautious. Anything to increase their margins...

 

 

also Roc,  the amounts that you seem to pay for health insurance are so high! how can you justify as a healthy adult paying 4-500 a year ?!  

 



I have a dog. I run my own finishing school and I take prisoners

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Posted on Tue, Jan 07, 2014 12:45

Quoting 3345roc:

Obamacare is unlike Britain's, Canada's or France's system.  It doesn't sddress healthcare delivery at all.  It's "redistribution of wealth" in disguise and just attempts regulate health insurance companies.  A 40 year old making $80,000 a year would pay $400/month for the lowest level Bronze Plan and a 40 year old making $20,000 a year would pay $4/month for the very same plan and the very same coverage.... leveling the playing field, eh!

We've always had the best health delivery system in the world but the highest per capita cost and not necessarily the best results.  We had 25-30 million people without coverage or about 8 to 10% of our population.  Rather than address those without coverage they restructured the entire system.

Medicare for seniors has been around for 45+ years and it remains relatively unchanged.  It represent 50% of our total healthcare costs.  When it first came out it was totally run and administered by the government and operated in the red for most of it's life.  Insurance providers were able to come in, offer increased coverage and better administration and make a profit. 


Roc,
Why do you think it is appropriate for insurance providers to make profits off of healthcare?  Aren't there plenty of opportunities to make profits by insuring houses, boats, cars, motorcycles, jewelery, etc?  And how do they make those profits?  By charging women as much a 150% more for coverage than men....because women have babies, doctors make money by doing hysterectomies, women need mamograms???  By implementing Caps on coverage, so when someone is old, or profoundly sick they can kick them off the insurance plan and force the government to pay for their care when it is the most expensive to do so?  By denying coverage when you change jobs and have a "pre-existing" condition, forcing the individual to be uninsured and just show up in the county hospital ER, which then the taxpayers have to pay for their care?  I could go on and on.

Insurance companies are not in the business to provide healthcare.  They are in the business to make profits.  Why do we need them as a middle-man, which just drives up cost?  Do they do anything to improve outcomes....they haven't so far, but they certainly were able to ration care by denying payment for certain services.

Btw, now that Obamacare has started....I'm waiting for the appearance of the much heralded "Death Panels".  When do you suppose they are going to start showing up?????



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NovemberJulie...
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Posted on Sun, Jan 05, 2014 04:34

Quoting wwww12345:

More from the article about health care in England..  How would you like to wait 2 months for cancer treatment??   Well I wouldn't.

 

"What is the current status of access to care, now that the rights of NHS patients to medical care were enumerated?

At the end of June, the number of people waiting in England to start NHS treatment was 240,000 higher than the same time last year.

NHS England figures for July showed that 508,555 people in London alone were waiting for operations or other treatment to begin — the highest total for at least five years.

Almost 60,000 more patients were waiting for treatment at the capital’s 34 NHS hospitals than one year ago. According to NHS data released in August, hospital waiting lists soared to a five-year high, with almost 2.9 million patients with a known diagnosis in the queue for treatment.

In Wales, the number of patients waiting more than nine months for hospital treatment in November had more than doubled in six months. The Welsh government also reported their NHS is still failing to treat 8 to 13% of the most urgent cancer cases within 62 days – two full months after diagnosis.

Even given a laughably long leash of an 18 week standard, the number of patients not being treated within the target of 18 weeks soared to 39,145 — up 16 per cent on the previous month -- in London alone.

The BBC discovered even more scandalous news back in February --  many patients initially assessed as needing surgery were subsequently re-categorized by the hospital so that they could be removed from waiting lists to distort the already unconscionable delays.

Royal College of Surgeons President Norman Williams, calling this “outrageous,” publicly charged that hospitals are cutting their waiting lists by artificially raising thresholds."


I'd just like to tell you something without going into details as I am not familiar with the ins and outs of Obama care. 

 

What I can tell you is that I don't think you can compare it to the NHS In the UK. 

 

The NHS ( national health service) is an health service entirely free of charge for the ones that can't afford medical insurance which gets funded by the state budget and by a very  a minimum amount which is paid by each employer for his employee towards this service. It gives you acccess to all doctors and hospitals and all diagnosis available. Of course there is a waiting list. Of course it sucks to wait, which is why most people have private care, which at a cost of around 50 GBP per months covers you very well and gives you all the medical treatment you need , excluding cosmetic procedures of course. 

 

Any person arriving into the UK, british citizen or not will get access for free to NHS services by simply registering for it. Many come and abuse the system, that is why you have long waiting lines. But private care is not that expensive when you think, it's a quarter maybe of what you pay for car insurance for example. For 90 GBP a month me and my next of kin (if I had any here or when my dad ended up in hospital whilst visiting me recently ) are covered to the highest level of diagnosis, investigation and treatment. There are hundreds of private hospitals with top consultants to choose from with any insurance company, they work together. 

 

besides this, prescription drugs are at a fraction of the cost of USA. I have seen this myself. So overall it is working rather well here I would say. 

 

I have no idea how much health care costs in the USA now or how that would change with Obamacare. As far as I understand there is no basic free care provided at the moment. 

 

That is unethical and is a bit backwards coming from such a civilised country. 



I have a dog. I run my own finishing school and I take prisoners

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Posted on Sat, Jan 04, 2014 22:29

More from the article about health care in England..  How would you like to wait 2 months for cancer treatment??   Well I wouldn't.

 

"What is the current status of access to care, now that the rights of NHS patients to medical care were enumerated?

At the end of June, the number of people waiting in England to start NHS treatment was 240,000 higher than the same time last year.

NHS England figures for July showed that 508,555 people in London alone were waiting for operations or other treatment to begin — the highest total for at least five years.

Almost 60,000 more patients were waiting for treatment at the capital’s 34 NHS hospitals than one year ago. According to NHS data released in August, hospital waiting lists soared to a five-year high, with almost 2.9 million patients with a known diagnosis in the queue for treatment.

In Wales, the number of patients waiting more than nine months for hospital treatment in November had more than doubled in six months. The Welsh government also reported their NHS is still failing to treat 8 to 13% of the most urgent cancer cases within 62 days – two full months after diagnosis.

Even given a laughably long leash of an 18 week standard, the number of patients not being treated within the target of 18 weeks soared to 39,145 — up 16 per cent on the previous month -- in London alone.

The BBC discovered even more scandalous news back in February --  many patients initially assessed as needing surgery were subsequently re-categorized by the hospital so that they could be removed from waiting lists to distort the already unconscionable delays.

Royal College of Surgeons President Norman Williams, calling this “outrageous,” publicly charged that hospitals are cutting their waiting lists by artificially raising thresholds."



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Posted on Sat, Jan 04, 2014 21:43

Quoting 4EverLoyal:

Sir!

New cases of PTSD is not the result of "Obamacare".  PTSD is now in the DSMV as an illness, therefore, ensuring that people have insurance for treatment is very important.

President Obama is on his way out of the White House, you may see more conservative leadership in 2016,

who knows!!!! 



I think you missed the point.. Read this..People are waiting 4 1/2 months for care in socialized medicine England's system.. Now that would put me into shock for sure...

 

Exposing the world's great lie about ObamaCare and socialized medicine



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