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3345roc
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Posted on Sat, Jan 25, 2014 06:49

Quoting wwww12345:

Excellent article about Obam's criminal fraud. His fraud will go down in history because of the size, which dwarfs any other..

 



"Bueller, Bueller"...Ben Stein.  Love that old curmudgeon



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wwww12345
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Posted on Sat, Jan 25, 2014 03:55

Excellent article about Obam's criminal fraud. His fraud will go down in history because of the size, which dwarfs any other..

 



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wwww12345
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Posted on Thu, Jan 23, 2014 10:24

Quoting wwww12345:

The people that want to raise taxes on corporations all seem to not understand basic economic facts... There are no free lunches and there are NO taxes that don't have negative impacts.


Frankly I think we should tax the hell out of everything I don't use, like female dresses, thongs, pot, high heel shoes, small cars, foreign travel......... you get the idea....

 

But keep your hands off my favorite purchases and Playboy mag.



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wwww12345
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Posted on Tue, Jan 21, 2014 13:18

Quoting 3345roc:

We had a saying in the Army that "sh*t rolls downhill.  Whose pocket do you think increased taxes for oil companies or that penny would ultimately come from.

If we legalized marijuana and taxed it we'd increase revenue, decrease our prison population and court costs and even some of those on EBT food stamps would be a very happy group.



The people that want to raise taxes on corporations all seem to not understand basic economic facts... There are no free lunches and there are NO taxes that don't have negative impacts.



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3345roc
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Posted on Tue, Jan 14, 2014 13:24

Quoting NovemberJuliett:

Wow Diana, 

that sounds UN BE LIE VA BLE !! 

i bet they justify the gender differential premium as justified by statistics... It makes me sick when I see they do the same here for women drivers for example.  Young women are presumed worse drivers than young men, but then over 30 years of age women drivers are safer than men as they are presumed not to speed and be cautious. Anything to increase their margins...

 

 

also Roc,  the amounts that you seem to pay for health insurance are so high! how can you justify as a healthy adult paying 4-500 a year ?!  

 



We spend 18% of GDP on healthcare and that's up to twice what European countries pay and amounts to about $8000 per capita.  We have more doctors, more hospitals and more healthcare professionals too.  While we have the best healthcare delivery system in the world we don't have the best results according to the WHO.

There are a great many good things in Obamacare not the least of which is incentives to pay doctors for results rather than for high paying procedures, like hysterectomies.  Our new law was written by politicians who are mostly lawyers and they had input from lobbyists from both insurance and pharma companies.  Lots of money passed hands.  When it comes to politics .. "Cash is King".

Insurance companies employ lots of actuaries.  They use statistics to assign individuals to risk pools.  Women, smokers and obese people consume more healthcare than others.   Young people cause more auto accidents than older people.  Older people pay more for life insurance. Those who live in flood zones pay more.  One thing for certain is that the insurance company is going to get the same premiums in aggregate.  If you reduce the premium for women, smokers, obese, young old or flooded... the premiums for others will go up.  I guess you could call that redistribution of risk.

Under Obamacare whether you're rich or poor you apy the same premium to the insurance company.  However, if the fee is $400/month the government could subsidize the lower income person as much as $390/month.... and we do know where the government gets that subsidy. 

 

 



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3345roc
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Posted on Tue, Jan 14, 2014 12:35

Quoting Diana3316:

WWWW, I'm so glad you brought that up about the 'other' taxes paid besides Federal.  The working poor and elderly.......aka "the 47%"......also pay those same 'other' taxes.

The oil companies are doing just fine!  They have plenty of customers!!!  I wouldn't shed a tear if they had to pay more taxes. 

 

But if I had the power....the first thing I would do is implement a user fee on Wall Street trades!!!  Even if we charged them a penny a trade.....it would generate billions!

And btw...I will drive 5 miles out of my way not to shop at Walmart.  I boycott Hobby Lobby as well.



We had a saying in the Army that "sh*t rolls downhill.  Whose pocket do you think increased taxes for oil companies or that penny would ultimately come from.

If we legalized marijuana and taxed it we'd increase revenue, decrease our prison population and court costs and even some of those on EBT food stamps would be a very happy group.



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3345roc
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Posted on Tue, Jan 14, 2014 12:20

Quoting Diana3316:

Well ya know WWWW, I've been watching this whole Bridgegate thing going on in NJ.  But the thing I was wondering.....is WHY are all those people driving cars trying to get across that bridge????  Don't we have some other options for getting around in this country....besides driving cars?  Why isn't anyone asking that question?


The Repubs really screwed up. Those huge traffic jams trapped constituents on both side of the aisle.  The IRS was much more focused and laser targeted Conservatives.  Gotta give this one to the Dems.



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3345roc
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Posted on Tue, Jan 14, 2014 12:05

Quoting Diana3316:


Roc, I'm sorry you felt my response was superflous....so, I will conceed there were too many words, but I really must Object to your use of the word "fact".  Your graphs depict nothing of the kind.  Why... you don't even document the source of the data.  If you don't provide the source, it has zero credibility. 

Let me try to restate my most basic questions: 

What type of non-military, non-degreed jobs are they comparing to a private sector job???  What are the job descriptions please and are they comparible?   You infer they are, but unless you reveal the data source, I'm not confident of the methology of the comparison.  A security worker in a mall is not the same as a Homeland Security, security worker.  I would think the training and responsibility of the two jobs are vastly different.   

The government standardizes pay no matter the region.  The private sector, non-degreed person can make vastly different wages in Georgia vs California.  Does the source of your data adjust for the downward skewing due to geographical variances of wages in the private sector?



I represented the graphs as fact rather than my opinion because I didn't conjure up the data and construct the graphs.  The Cato Institute did and, while the numbers might differ the trends can be verified on the CBO site.  I think the opinions you draw from the graphs might differ depending on your leanings. Those who favor large government and feel that the Fed is the driving force in the economy might view them favorably.  Those who favor small government and feel the private sector is the driving force in the economy might view them unfavorably.  Those who favor effective government might conclude that something is not working.

While the private sector might have a wider variety of non degreed jobs I imagine that the Fed employs quite a few clerical personnel. I would guess that a majority of the 600.000 Postal workers are non degreed.  The largest discrepancy in wages and benefits occurs among the non degreed workers both in salary and in benefits.  If you're familiar with the term "double dipping" I think you'll find that happens more often in the public sector.

Unfunded mandates have bankrupt several cities and left some states with huge debt.  Have you ever heard the expression " don't let you mouth make promises your a$$ can't back up"? I don't consider my 401K an entitlement program and I also don't feel that Social Security should be deemed one because it's been so terribly mismanaged by the Fed.

The pay differentials that you claim doesn't exist have been around for decades and you can find the specifics regarding the 30-40 cities affected on one of the .gov websites.  

I stated that a person in the private sector is 5 times as likely to be fired for poor perfomance and I was wrong.  It's 6 times more likely, and furthermore the probablity of being fired or laid off after 3 years of government service is practically nil.  You can verify that as well.

 



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wwww12345
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Posted on Mon, Jan 13, 2014 23:39

Quoting Diana3316:

Well ya know WWWW, I've been watching this whole Bridgegate thing going on in NJ.  But the thing I was wondering.....is WHY are all those people driving cars trying to get across that bridge????  Don't we have some other options for getting around in this country....besides driving cars?  Why isn't anyone asking that question?



They are trying to get across the bridge for the same reason a chicken crosses the road..... beer...

We do need more light rail but it's expensive when the town is already built and you have to tear down places to build it.

 



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Diana3316
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Posted on Mon, Jan 13, 2014 22:46

Quoting wwww12345:

Oil companies have periods of good years and bad years.  If Saudi drops the price of their oil very much the locals start losing money. The Saudi production cost is about $3 per bbl. Domestic oil production cost is probably close to $90. In the 80's many domestic production companies went bankrupt because of a flooded supply.  Since oil is a STRATEGIC and critical war supply product it is best we keep the locals producting.

Someday, just for grins, you should look up the profit the oil companies  make on a gallon of gas and then compare that to taxes paid per gallon..I think taxes are about 6 times the profit now.   Would you like another couple of dollars tax per gallon, like they do in Europe?

 


Well ya know WWWW, I've been watching this whole Bridgegate thing going on in NJ.  But the thing I was wondering.....is WHY are all those people driving cars trying to get across that bridge????  Don't we have some other options for getting around in this country....besides driving cars?  Why isn't anyone asking that question?



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wwww12345
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Posted on Mon, Jan 13, 2014 20:10

Quoting Diana3316:

WWWW, I'm so glad you brought that up about the 'other' taxes paid besides Federal.  The working poor and elderly.......aka "the 47%"......also pay those same 'other' taxes.

The oil companies are doing just fine!  They have plenty of customers!!!  I wouldn't shed a tear if they had to pay more taxes. 

 

But if I had the power....the first thing I would do is implement a user fee on Wall Street trades!!!  Even if we charged them a penny a trade.....it would generate billions!

And btw...I will drive 5 miles out of my way not to shop at Walmart.  I boycott Hobby Lobby as well.



Oil companies have periods of good years and bad years.  If Saudi drops the price of their oil very much the locals start losing money. The Saudi production cost is about $3 per bbl. Domestic oil production cost is probably close to $90. In the 80's many domestic production companies went bankrupt because of a flooded supply.  Since oil is a STRATEGIC and critical war supply product it is best we keep the locals producting.

Someday, just for grins, you should look up the profit the oil companies  make on a gallon of gas and then compare that to taxes paid per gallon..I think taxes are about 6 times the profit now.   Would you like another couple of dollars tax per gallon, like they do in Europe?

 



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wwww12345
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Posted on Mon, Jan 13, 2014 06:25

Quoting Diana3316:


Roc, I'm sorry you felt my response was superflous....so, I will conceed there were too many words, but I really must Object to your use of the word "fact".  Your graphs depict nothing of the kind.  Why... you don't even document the source of the data.  If you don't provide the source, it has zero credibility. 

Let me try to restate my most basic questions: 

What type of non-military, non-degreed jobs are they comparing to a private sector job???  What are the job descriptions please and are they comparible?   You infer they are, but unless you reveal the data source, I'm not confident of the methology of the comparison.  A security worker in a mall is not the same as a Homeland Security, security worker.  I would think the training and responsibility of the two jobs are vastly different.   

The government standardizes pay no matter the region.  The private sector, non-degreed person can make vastly different wages in Georgia vs California.  Does the source of your data adjust for the downward skewing due to geographical variances of wages in the private sector?


The gov does not standardize pay regardless of the region.  In Houston, for example,  you get a location pay that is a extra 25%. The location pay is suppose to make the gov competitive in hiring and retaining workers and is based upon the salary rates in the area, NOT on the cost of the living in a area.. As a result, the Houston area civil servants make out great but the CS in San Fran or NY starve.  In general a CS job is a good job in most of the US but horribly underpaid in high paying, high cost areas like Silicon Valley, most of Calif, NY, etc..The reason the CS in Houston get paid more is because of the saleries at the oil companies, which are quite well considering the low cost of living.



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3345roc
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Posted on Sun, Jan 12, 2014 10:54

Making some Braised Pulled Pork Shoulder for the family dinner tonight.  It takes 3 1/2 to 4 hours to cook and I was thinking, of all the freedoms we have in America where does the right to Economic freedom rank.

We all know that the Federal Debt ended the year at $17.2 Trillion, $54,000 for every person living in the US, 102% of GDP and about 6 years worth of Federal Revenues.  That's pretty bad but the economy is recovering slowly despite the ineptitude of the Government... but is that the whole story?

Corporations have to account for future obligations such as pensions and retirement benefits. The Government isn't bound by these same rules when preparing the budget but it is accounted for in the Financial Report of the US Government.  You might have heard the term "unfunded public mandate" with regard to city bankruptcy or states being unable to honor employee pensions.  That happens when new contracts are signed with employee unions or others, administrations change and no money is set aside to cover those financial contracts.

I don't recommend you read the 2012 because we know for a fact that lawyers and accountants have a language that few of us understand.  Hell, lawyers even use weird size paper that doesn't fit in filing cabinets.  I heard that if you add up all the pages of the ACA and all of the pages of the regulations that the minions in each Federal department wrote to define the process you would have approximately 20 "War and Peace" novels. I hardly was able to get through one.

Ant way... if you do add up all of the unfunded mandates at the Federal level.. employee pensions, military pensions, Social Security and Medicare and a whole lot of other accounting minutiae...

The real Federal Debt would be $67 Trillion



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Diana3316
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Posted on Sun, Jan 12, 2014 09:11

Quoting wwww12345:


@D....You are thinking like the person that goes shopping for underwear and plastic at Wal Mart..  Try thinking like a corporation which is trying to decide if they want to borrow and invest in a $650 million dollar off shore oil drilling rig, or one wanting to buy a million dollar piece of mining equipment or buy a supercomputer and big data storage farm... all of which needs to be paid for out of "greedy corporate profits".
The Wal Mart shoppers do not buy oil rigs or supercomputers and believe it or not that is where the big money is for workers. High dollar products can pay high dollar wages for SKILLED workers as long as they have CORPORATE CUSTOMERS who have some money left after taxes.. Now, do you really want to tax the corporations out of business?
Now why don't you point out that some corporations pay no taxes, so I can point out that they pay sales, city, county, state, school, hospital district, flood control district, fuel tax, phone tax, college district taxes and thousands of other "taxes" for permits, fees, inspections, etc..  Federal Taxes are just a drop in the bucket compared to all of the other taxes they pay. There is no corporation in this country that is not paying tons of taxes as long as they have their doors open and even have to pay all of the property taxes after the doors are shut.

 


WWWW, I'm so glad you brought that up about the 'other' taxes paid besides Federal.  The working poor and elderly.......aka "the 47%"......also pay those same 'other' taxes.

The oil companies are doing just fine!  They have plenty of customers!!!  I wouldn't shed a tear if they had to pay more taxes. 

 

But if I had the power....the first thing I would do is implement a user fee on Wall Street trades!!!  Even if we charged them a penny a trade.....it would generate billions!

And btw...I will drive 5 miles out of my way not to shop at Walmart.  I boycott Hobby Lobby as well.



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Diana3316
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Posted on Sun, Jan 12, 2014 08:50

Quoting 3345roc:

I suspect you might have missed the point.  The following graph shows the wages but doesn't include the value of the benefit package.  It, like the first one, is a fairly easy graph to understand.  While I appreciate the time you took to voice your opinions on a wide variety of topics they are superflous and they don't refute the facts depicted by the graphs posted. 



Roc, I'm sorry you felt my response was superflous....so, I will conceed there were too many words, but I really must Object to your use of the word "fact".  Your graphs depict nothing of the kind.  Why... you don't even document the source of the data.  If you don't provide the source, it has zero credibility. 

Let me try to restate my most basic questions: 

What type of non-military, non-degreed jobs are they comparing to a private sector job???  What are the job descriptions please and are they comparible?   You infer they are, but unless you reveal the data source, I'm not confident of the methology of the comparison.  A security worker in a mall is not the same as a Homeland Security, security worker.  I would think the training and responsibility of the two jobs are vastly different.   

The government standardizes pay no matter the region.  The private sector, non-degreed person can make vastly different wages in Georgia vs California.  Does the source of your data adjust for the downward skewing due to geographical variances of wages in the private sector?



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3345roc
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Posted on Sun, Jan 12, 2014 06:13

Quoting wwww12345:


@D....You are thinking like the person that goes shopping for underwear and plastic at Wal Mart..  Try thinking like a corporation which is trying to decide if they want to borrow and invest in a $650 million dollar off shore oil drilling rig, or one wanting to buy a million dollar piece of mining equipment or buy a supercomputer and big data storage farm... all of which needs to be paid for out of "greedy corporate profits".
The Wal Mart shoppers do not buy oil rigs or supercomputers and believe it or not that is where the big money is for workers. High dollar products can pay high dollar wages for SKILLED workers as long as they have CORPORATE CUSTOMERS who have some money left after taxes.. Now, do you really want to tax the corporations out of business?
Now why don't you point out that some corporations pay no taxes, so I can point out that they pay sales, city, county, state, school, hospital district, flood control district, fuel tax, phone tax, college district taxes and thousands of other "taxes" for permits, fees, inspections, etc..  Federal Taxes are just a drop in the bucket compared to all of the other taxes they pay. There is no corporation in this country that is not paying tons of taxes as long as they have their doors open and even have to pay all of the property taxes after the doors are shut.

 


.... and "the most evil corporation in America" offers its employees better healthcare solutions than they would receive from Obamacare.

Lower premiums, access to more doctors and hospitals, lower deductibles and lower prescription drug costs.



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wwww12345
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Posted on Sat, Jan 11, 2014 20:24

Quoting Diana3316:

WWWW, I am not a communist.  But I know enough to know that profits are not created by cuts.  Profits are created by customers.... with money in their pockets to spend.



@D....You are thinking like the person that goes shopping for underwear and plastic at Wal Mart..  Try thinking like a corporation which is trying to decide if they want to borrow and invest in a $650 million dollar off shore oil drilling rig, or one wanting to buy a million dollar piece of mining equipment or buy a supercomputer and big data storage farm... all of which needs to be paid for out of "greedy corporate profits".
The Wal Mart shoppers do not buy oil rigs or supercomputers and believe it or not that is where the big money is for workers. High dollar products can pay high dollar wages for SKILLED workers as long as they have CORPORATE CUSTOMERS who have some money left after taxes.. Now, do you really want to tax the corporations out of business?
Now why don't you point out that some corporations pay no taxes, so I can point out that they pay sales, city, county, state, school, hospital district, flood control district, fuel tax, phone tax, college district taxes and thousands of other "taxes" for permits, fees, inspections, etc..  Federal Taxes are just a drop in the bucket compared to all of the other taxes they pay. There is no corporation in this country that is not paying tons of taxes as long as they have their doors open and even have to pay all of the property taxes after the doors are shut.

 



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3345roc
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Posted on Sat, Jan 11, 2014 14:17

Quoting Diana3316:

Indeed Roc, I can understand why you would not want to post such a graph….as I can imagine the picture would be quite grotesque. 

 

So let’s take a moment to compare you apples to apples graph then.  What’s been going on in this country since the year 2000?  Hmmm….the World Trade Center was blown up, a war in Iraq, a war in Afghanistan, a financial collapse to name the big 4.  A couple of observations/questions:

 

·         Since higher educated positions pay comparable in both arenas, what type of government jobs are there that only require a high school education?  Maybe a TSA agent…or a Port Authority inspector?  Are these type of “apples” the same “apples” as a security guard at say the local mall in Georgia???

 

·         “The profit motive spurs productivity and efficiency.  Whose???  Not the workers if those profits are not shared in the form of better wages.  

 

·         “A private sector employee is 5 times as like to be fired for poor performance as a Federal employee and the turnover rate is almost nil at the Fed level.”  A private sector employee is also 100 times as likely to be fired/laid-off for profit motives.  And just as an aside, prior to the ACA….in this country when you lose your job, you lose your health insurance.  Example:  In 2011, Medicare implemented a bundled form of payment for the clinics we service.  In other words my independently owned company no longer bills Medicare directly, resulting in our revenue dropping by 50%.  My department used to be 18 employees and now we’re 5 to cover the entire country.  Those workers lost their private sector jobs due to profits, not because they were doing a bad job.  Do you think I do as effective a job training the nurses and technicians that provide your healthcare, when I now cover over 100 different clinics?  Don’t tell me the government doesn’t create jobs.

 

·         “I'd rather pay fewer taxes even if it meant some company made a profit and gave it's CEO a bonus…”  Not me.  Because I know MANY of those government employees with good paying jobs are providing a service to ME and my community.   Whether it is inspecting the food we eat, ensuring oil companies are complying with safety regulations, making sure bombs and dangerous people are not getting into this country, our children are educated, our fires are being fought, our streets are patrolled by adequately trained police.  Those reasonably paid workers can then afford to take care of themselves and pump that money back into the economy.  If giving corporations and CEOs more and more money created jobs…..this country should be awash in jobs galore!

 

I have nothing against companies making a profit and CEOs making a lot of money.  But how much is enough?  How many yachts does one person need?  Shouldn’t there be some kind of social contract with workers that if the company does well, that they too will be able to feed their family, afford to purchase a home, educate their children and retire in dignity; not in poverty?  Trickle-down economics is a social experiment that has been an abject failure!


I suspect you might have missed the point.  The following graph shows the wages but doesn't include the value of the benefit package.  It, like the first one, is a fairly easy graph to understand.  While I appreciate the time you took to voice your opinions on a wide variety of topics they are superflous and they don't refute the facts depicted by the graphs posted. 


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Diana3316
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Posted on Sat, Jan 11, 2014 09:07

Quoting wwww12345:

My My,  your communism agenda is showing isn't it.  Tell you what, would you mind showing the number of corporations that have totally gone out of business in the last 7 years.. because of lack of any profit at all.   I think you will find that in some states they have lost about 50% of their manufacturers..  If you really want to get your eyes open look at how many high tech manufacturing companies are no longer in business, like DEC, UNIVAC, Burroughs, Control Data, Compac, Amdhal, and a thousand others less well known. Being a corporation is risky business and the people who finance them win sometimes but can lose big time. It's not like owning a gravel pit, which will probably always have some value. Stocks are paper and they can become just that, paper, in a heartbeat. Just ask me....I have a thousand shares that use to be worth $20 K that I will sell you for $100.



WWWW, I am not a communist.  But I know enough to know that profits are not created by cuts.  Profits are created by customers.... with money in their pockets to spend.



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Diana3316
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Posted on Sat, Jan 11, 2014 08:49

Quoting 3345roc:

The reason that the private sector can do a job and make a profit is illustrated below by comparing the total compensation paid in each sector.  These are averages.  People with degrees( Bachelors, Masters and PhDs) have comparable salaries but non degreed people with lower skill levels receive higher pay than their private sector counterparts.  The gap becomes even wider when you add in the cost of the benefits received.  On average, a private sector employee receives approximately $10.000 in benefits while the Federal employess benefit package is estimated at $30,000.

The profit motive spurs productivity and efficiency.  A private sector employee is 5 times as like to be fired for poor performance as a Federal employee and the turnover rate is almost nil at the Fed level.  Canada has privatized it's Air Traffic controllers and Germany has privatized it's Post office in order to save money.

The blue (Civilian) line represents a Fedral employee doing a civilian type job. The Military is excluded.

I'd rather pay fewer taxes even if it meant some company made a profit and gave it's CEO a bonus.... guess I'm just old fashioned that way.

 



Indeed Roc, I can understand why you would not want to post such a graph….as I can imagine the picture would be quite grotesque. 

 

So let’s take a moment to compare you apples to apples graph then.  What’s been going on in this country since the year 2000?  Hmmm….the World Trade Center was blown up, a war in Iraq, a war in Afghanistan, a financial collapse to name the big 4.  A couple of observations/questions:

 

·         Since higher educated positions pay comparable in both arenas, what type of government jobs are there that only require a high school education?  Maybe a TSA agent…or a Port Authority inspector?  Are these type of “apples” the same “apples” as a security guard at say the local mall in Georgia???

 

·         “The profit motive spurs productivity and efficiency.  Whose???  Not the workers if those profits are not shared in the form of better wages.  

 

·         “A private sector employee is 5 times as like to be fired for poor performance as a Federal employee and the turnover rate is almost nil at the Fed level.”  A private sector employee is also 100 times as likely to be fired/laid-off for profit motives.  And just as an aside, prior to the ACA….in this country when you lose your job, you lose your health insurance.  Example:  In 2011, Medicare implemented a bundled form of payment for the clinics we service.  In other words my independently owned company no longer bills Medicare directly, resulting in our revenue dropping by 50%.  My department used to be 18 employees and now we’re 5 to cover the entire country.  Those workers lost their private sector jobs due to profits, not because they were doing a bad job.  Do you think I do as effective a job training the nurses and technicians that provide your healthcare, when I now cover over 100 different clinics?  Don’t tell me the government doesn’t create jobs.

 

·         “I'd rather pay fewer taxes even if it meant some company made a profit and gave it's CEO a bonus…”  Not me.  Because I know MANY of those government employees with good paying jobs are providing a service to ME and my community.   Whether it is inspecting the food we eat, ensuring oil companies are complying with safety regulations, making sure bombs and dangerous people are not getting into this country, our children are educated, our fires are being fought, our streets are patrolled by adequately trained police.  Those reasonably paid workers can then afford to take care of themselves and pump that money back into the economy.  If giving corporations and CEOs more and more money created jobs…..this country should be awash in jobs galore!

 

I have nothing against companies making a profit and CEOs making a lot of money.  But how much is enough?  How many yachts does one person need?  Shouldn’t there be some kind of social contract with workers that if the company does well, that they too will be able to feed their family, afford to purchase a home, educate their children and retire in dignity; not in poverty?  Trickle-down economics is a social experiment that has been an abject failure!


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