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Quoting Rihanna:
Hello Dears,
ExcessEnergy asked me to post the following comment on my blog:
Hi, Rihanna,
Provocative blog, which makes sense, in view of from whom it comes.
Taking it from the top, if a woman describes herself as any of the following, she's unemployed or underemployed and starkly in need of rescue:
"self-employed, writer, artist, consultant or other."
Yes, there are the (very) rare commercially successful and recognized artists and writers on dating sites, but we could hold a convention of them all in my living room with seating still open. And if we added the successful consultants to the party, there'd still be more furniture than people.
And, yes, if you want to stay closer to the center of your comfort zone and you have an MD, PhD, JD, MBA, et al., you will probably seek the same on dating sites. However, that is not necessarily the sine qua non of a successful relationship. People's personality, character, emotional intelligence, creativity, humor, sensuality, reliability and just a good heart can carry things a lot further than whether they've been vetted by some graduate school. As the senior executive character in a Cary Grant comedy once said to Grant's character as both watched in awe as Marilyn Monroe sashayed out of the office, "Well, ANYONE can type!" Ever so. There are things that cannot be taught in grad school that usually prove to be far more important than certified intellectual horsepower. There are, after all, a lot of men and women out there whose horsepower is every bit as prodigious but whom circumstances directed them around having it certified by some university. Bill Gates and St
eve Jobs come to mind. Having said all of that, I'm still more comfortable dating someone with multiple degrees than not, just as I'm more comfortable dating someone with money they've earned than not; both are a demonstration of competence that is reassuring in a potential partner.
The point is well taken on grammar, with the exception of those who come to the site from another country for whom English is not their first language. If any Anglo-American (a native citizen of any of the Echelon countries) uses improper grammar, that's something of a red flag for incompatibility across a wider array of facets of the relationship. However, in the case of those for whom English came lately, one should in fairness be prepared to give them a little slack, if their foreign cultural background is not itself a barrier to achieving a satisfying and enduring communion (which it can be for some people).
"I'm too sexy." (Sigh!) Well, the proof is in the pudding and not in the typing. I rather admire the self-confidence of a woman who describes herself so forthrightly (accompanied by my earnest hope that she is not self-deluded [as so many are in this regard]), while agreeing that this is one of those self-bestowed accolades that would better go unmentioned, as it smacks of a lack of cultivation, rather like those who assert (often repeatedly) that they are "classy" (another attribute best left to demonstration rather than assertion).
"I'm a great catch," etc. - It's a fine balance in a profile to put forth some enticing description of some of one's particulars without seeming to have succumbed to narcissism. The balance is perhaps best struck by laying out the facts and leaving the conclusions to be drawn by those who see the profile. After all, if a woman is drop dead gorgeous, she hardly needs to belabor the fact in writing, but might want to be at some pains to elaborate upon how intellectually agile, emotionally available, good humored and socially approachable she is, since those important aspects may not come across in the pictures, just as someone with lots of degrees and heaps of success may want to counterbalance the potential intimidation by demonstrating their good humor and sense of humility. The best courtroom lawyers never tell the jury what to conclude, but only emphasize what evidence they should consider in reaching their decision. So it should be in profiles.
"Arrogant people" - this is one of those phrases which is a red flag all by itself for those of us who feel that we have proven ourselves past peradventure and have accumulated at least a respectable record of achievement and success. A sense of perspective and humility on some level is always desirable, but those who are so sensitive about others' high opinion of themselves are probably wrestling with personal problems of a dimension best avoided. As the original author wrote, "Warning, Will Robinson!" And you shouldn't need a robot to tell you when you run across this phrase.
"I want to meet a man who knows how to treat a lady." This sentence (virtually ubiquitous in women's profiles on all sites) always makes me wonder who in the hell the woman had been dating and how she was treated up to the point where she drafted her profile. It raises the question as to whether her discernment in men is sub par, compelling her to slap that demand right on the table in the apprehension that she would otherwise be treated poorly. Alternatively, it suggests, as the original author wrote, that she expects to be treated to extraordinary luxury as the price of her continued interest. One would think that anyone worth a damn would treat a woman he was dating as if she were lady, subject to her evidencing the contrary. This is another of those stated requirements that would be best left implicit; stating them explicitly strikes a dissonant note in what might otherwise be a symphonic masterpiece of personal exposition (although it is more often the case than not
that if even one of the above offending phrases is present, the others are statistically more likely to follow in the same profile . . . alas!).
"Family oriented man," etc. - one can only be grateful for the woman to place her cards on the table in such a forthright fashion. If she tells you or displays in photos that she has a passel of offspring from one or more marriages or liasons, that is something you will want seriously to weigh in deciding to pursue her versus others lacking that feature, as the original author noted. There is really nothing wrong with a woman stating her expectations of what features a successful union would entail and if pre-existing kids are present, it is right for her to make it clear that she expects you to be appreciatively involved and is not willing to send her little darlings to boarding school. On balance, I think that this is a good thing for the woman (or a man, for that matter) to make very clear so that the potential date/mate knows exactly what is in store if things go from rock and roll to walking down the aisle. Many a relationship has foundered on a lack of shared assump
tions in this regard.
As for your own set of inferences, the following come to mind:
"Men wanting an independent woman" - I've been told often enough that this has been code for exactly what you describe. However, mention of the desire for independence need not mean that at all. I am sure that many men write it with the thought that they want women who demonstrate a capability to cope on their own and who will not be so needy and clingy as to make one yearn for the days of singlehood. Not everyone who states a desire for a woman to have a capacity for independence is cheap or a hit and run artist. Independence can be a very positive trait. Speaking for myself only, I admire it in a woman, but have never suggested that woman pay for anything where I was involved. Quod erat demonstrandum.
"Compassionate woman" - well, after all, what would be a wrong with a woman who attended to all our needs whenever we requested it? Just kidding. Anyone who expects that better keep his mother alive, well and neurotic. But some women's (and men's) capacity for compassion is truly limited and some of them recognize it (they actually will tell you that they are PROUD of not being very compassionate or empathetic, as they think it evidences a clear vision and grasp of reality, devoid of the delusions of emotional fantasy); it is perhaps best to warn them in advance that this fierce refusal to succumb to compassion, while admirable to some, will not be well received by the profile writer. Personally, I prefer a woman who errs on the side of empathy and compassion and am not shy about saying so. After all, what are we to be for one another if not the last respite in times when compassion and empathy are the only balm for wounds endured? If we cannot offer that to each other,
what else may we not expect and what virtues are we to find in our union besides mere convenience?
"good catch" - supra - again, it's a fine balance between laying out one's positive traits while not seeming terminally self-absorbed. These profiles are, after all, an advertisement for oneself, and always risk overstatement of the positive. A man or a woman need not consider themselves the ne plus ultra of their gender while summarizing that they are a good catch or whatever. Still, as noted above, it is probably best to lay out the evidence and leave the conclusion to the reader's discretion.
Putting all of this another way, and speaking only as a man reading women's profiles, it works like this:
What grabs our attention is the pictures. If the pictures are not enticing, the profile doesn't get read, not even glanced at . . . period. If the pictures are enticing, then the profile is read to see if the person is literate, reasonably intelligent, humorous and mentally well (on the plus side) and does not disqualify herself by some display of permanent anger toward men, woeful ignorance, coarse sensibilities, financial neediness or avariciousness, high school education or worse, tattoos (which may not have appeared in the pictures - you'd be surprised!), piercings, or revelation through explicit statement or choice of language of some other fatal incompatibility in world view (such as coming from Russia, for instance).
Thus, if the pictures are smokin' and the profile does NOT display some fact that leaps out of it like the creature in "Alien," then maybe it gets put on the "favorites list" for future action. If things are really impressive and one has the time, maybe a mail gets written right on the spur of anticipation created by the splendid profile. In any case, it's really a simple process. But avoidance of those red flag phrases is probably best for us all.
I know, or at least hope, that you were being a bit facetious in your own comments (sort of "back atcha, big guy!"). But there really are some genuine and practical concerns behind the hyperbolic grousing of the original author. Hey! If this were easy to get right, we'd all be happily hitched already, right?
Keep it comin', beautiful.
ExcessEnergy
Yours has to be the only decent blog I've ever seen on MM. Good job!
Hello Dears,
ExcessEnergy asked me to post the following comment on my blog:
Hi, Rihanna,
Provocative blog, which makes sense, in view of from whom it comes.
Taking it from the top, if a woman describes herself as any of the following, she's unemployed or underemployed and starkly in need of rescue:
"self-employed, writer, artist, consultant or other."
Yes, there are the (very) rare commercially successful and recognized artists and writers on dating sites, but we could hold a convention of them all in my living room with seating still open. And if we added the successful consultants to the party, there'd still be more furniture than people.
And, yes, if you want to stay closer to the center of your comfort zone and you have an MD, PhD, JD, MBA, et al., you will probably seek the same on dating sites. However, that is not necessarily the sine qua non of a successful relationship. People's personality, character, emotional intelligence, creativity, humor, sensuality, reliability and just a good heart can carry things a lot further than whether they've been vetted by some graduate school. As the senior executive character in a Cary Grant comedy once said to Grant's character as both watched in awe as Marilyn Monroe sashayed out of the office, "Well, ANYONE can type!" Ever so. There are things that cannot be taught in grad school that usually prove to be far more important than certified intellectual horsepower. There are, after all, a lot of men and women out there whose horsepower is every bit as prodigious but whom circumstances directed them around having it certified by some university. Bill Gates and St
eve Jobs come to mind. Having said all of that, I'm still more comfortable dating someone with multiple degrees than not, just as I'm more comfortable dating someone with money they've earned than not; both are a demonstration of competence that is reassuring in a potential partner.
The point is well taken on grammar, with the exception of those who come to the site from another country for whom English is not their first language. If any Anglo-American (a native citizen of any of the Echelon countries) uses improper grammar, that's something of a red flag for incompatibility across a wider array of facets of the relationship. However, in the case of those for whom English came lately, one should in fairness be prepared to give them a little slack, if their foreign cultural background is not itself a barrier to achieving a satisfying and enduring communion (which it can be for some people).
"I'm too sexy." (Sigh!) Well, the proof is in the pudding and not in the typing. I rather admire the self-confidence of a woman who describes herself so forthrightly (accompanied by my earnest hope that she is not self-deluded [as so many are in this regard]), while agreeing that this is one of those self-bestowed accolades that would better go unmentioned, as it smacks of a lack of cultivation, rather like those who assert (often repeatedly) that they are "classy" (another attribute best left to demonstration rather than assertion).
"I'm a great catch," etc. - It's a fine balance in a profile to put forth some enticing description of some of one's particulars without seeming to have succumbed to narcissism. The balance is perhaps best struck by laying out the facts and leaving the conclusions to be drawn by those who see the profile. After all, if a woman is drop dead gorgeous, she hardly needs to belabor the fact in writing, but might want to be at some pains to elaborate upon how intellectually agile, emotionally available, good humored and socially approachable she is, since those important aspects may not come across in the pictures, just as someone with lots of degrees and heaps of success may want to counterbalance the potential intimidation by demonstrating their good humor and sense of humility. The best courtroom lawyers never tell the jury what to conclude, but only emphasize what evidence they should consider in reaching their decision. So it should be in profiles.
"Arrogant people" - this is one of those phrases which is a red flag all by itself for those of us who feel that we have proven ourselves past peradventure and have accumulated at least a respectable record of achievement and success. A sense of perspective and humility on some level is always desirable, but those who are so sensitive about others' high opinion of themselves are probably wrestling with personal problems of a dimension best avoided. As the original author wrote, "Warning, Will Robinson!" And you shouldn't need a robot to tell you when you run across this phrase.
"I want to meet a man who knows how to treat a lady." This sentence (virtually ubiquitous in women's profiles on all sites) always makes me wonder who in the hell the woman had been dating and how she was treated up to the point where she drafted her profile. It raises the question as to whether her discernment in men is sub par, compelling her to slap that demand right on the table in the apprehension that she would otherwise be treated poorly. Alternatively, it suggests, as the original author wrote, that she expects to be treated to extraordinary luxury as the price of her continued interest. One would think that anyone worth a damn would treat a woman he was dating as if she were lady, subject to her evidencing the contrary. This is another of those stated requirements that would be best left implicit; stating them explicitly strikes a dissonant note in what might otherwise be a symphonic masterpiece of personal exposition (although it is more often the case than not
that if even one of the above offending phrases is present, the others are statistically more likely to follow in the same profile . . . alas!).
"Family oriented man," etc. - one can only be grateful for the woman to place her cards on the table in such a forthright fashion. If she tells you or displays in photos that she has a passel of offspring from one or more marriages or liasons, that is something you will want seriously to weigh in deciding to pursue her versus others lacking that feature, as the original author noted. There is really nothing wrong with a woman stating her expectations of what features a successful union would entail and if pre-existing kids are present, it is right for her to make it clear that she expects you to be appreciatively involved and is not willing to send her little darlings to boarding school. On balance, I think that this is a good thing for the woman (or a man, for that matter) to make very clear so that the potential date/mate knows exactly what is in store if things go from rock and roll to walking down the aisle. Many a relationship has foundered on a lack of shared assump
tions in this regard.
As for your own set of inferences, the following come to mind:
"Men wanting an independent woman" - I've been told often enough that this has been code for exactly what you describe. However, mention of the desire for independence need not mean that at all. I am sure that many men write it with the thought that they want women who demonstrate a capability to cope on their own and who will not be so needy and clingy as to make one yearn for the days of singlehood. Not everyone who states a desire for a woman to have a capacity for independence is cheap or a hit and run artist. Independence can be a very positive trait. Speaking for myself only, I admire it in a woman, but have never suggested that woman pay for anything where I was involved. Quod erat demonstrandum.
"Compassionate woman" - well, after all, what would be a wrong with a woman who attended to all our needs whenever we requested it? Just kidding. Anyone who expects that better keep his mother alive, well and neurotic. But some women's (and men's) capacity for compassion is truly limited and some of them recognize it (they actually will tell you that they are PROUD of not being very compassionate or empathetic, as they think it evidences a clear vision and grasp of reality, devoid of the delusions of emotional fantasy); it is perhaps best to warn them in advance that this fierce refusal to succumb to compassion, while admirable to some, will not be well received by the profile writer. Personally, I prefer a woman who errs on the side of empathy and compassion and am not shy about saying so. After all, what are we to be for one another if not the last respite in times when compassion and empathy are the only balm for wounds endured? If we cannot offer that to each other,
what else may we not expect and what virtues are we to find in our union besides mere convenience?
"good catch" - supra - again, it's a fine balance between laying out one's positive traits while not seeming terminally self-absorbed. These profiles are, after all, an advertisement for oneself, and always risk overstatement of the positive. A man or a woman need not consider themselves the ne plus ultra of their gender while summarizing that they are a good catch or whatever. Still, as noted above, it is probably best to lay out the evidence and leave the conclusion to the reader's discretion.
Putting all of this another way, and speaking only as a man reading women's profiles, it works like this:
What grabs our attention is the pictures. If the pictures are not enticing, the profile doesn't get read, not even glanced at . . . period. If the pictures are enticing, then the profile is read to see if the person is literate, reasonably intelligent, humorous and mentally well (on the plus side) and does not disqualify herself by some display of permanent anger toward men, woeful ignorance, coarse sensibilities, financial neediness or avariciousness, high school education or worse, tattoos (which may not have appeared in the pictures - you'd be surprised!), piercings, or revelation through explicit statement or choice of language of some other fatal incompatibility in world view (such as coming from Russia, for instance).
Thus, if the pictures are smokin' and the profile does NOT display some fact that leaps out of it like the creature in "Alien," then maybe it gets put on the "favorites list" for future action. If things are really impressive and one has the time, maybe a mail gets written right on the spur of anticipation created by the splendid profile. In any case, it's really a simple process. But avoidance of those red flag phrases is probably best for us all.
I know, or at least hope, that you were being a bit facetious in your own comments (sort of "back atcha, big guy!"). But there really are some genuine and practical concerns behind the hyperbolic grousing of the original author. Hey! If this were easy to get right, we'd all be happily hitched already, right?
Keep it comin', beautiful.
ExcessEnergy
Yours has to be the only decent blog I've ever seen on MM. Good job!
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