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MillionDollarBab
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Posted on Tue, Aug 20, 2013 10:50

Voices of dissent have called me on the carpet about my thoughts on dangerous, dangerous fracking.  Naturally this causes me to drink the wine of astonishment.  

 

The first sip of this wine is that I don't have any involvement in fracking to start with.  Well, you might argue, I have received "national attention" on my views on the Permian basin.  True.  Several people from all over read that blog.  

 

Earthlings, it's not all bad!  Our nation desperately needs oil and natural gas.  It's a survival issue.  And we need to have our own, not a supply coming from potential or actual enemies.  "Arsenic in the water!!" is cried.  "No groceries in the grocery store!" I counter.  There is already arsenic in the water!  How much more did fracking add, if any?  A molecule?  We have wheels that absolutely must spin. Windmills aren't going to make that happen.  

 

But read and weep.  I control no aspect of fracking.  OK, a billionth of the Chevron corporation maybe.  



Bab : )

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Diana3316
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Posted on Fri, Sep 06, 2013 22:29

Dak,

Thank you for your comprehensive responses.  I have been unable to formulate a response because I am deep in the woes of building a new deck (old one rotten) in 100+degree daily heat, next week putting in 3 new exterior doors and then traveling to see my parents in Florida.  My father continues to battle Alzheimer's and chronic infections/fevers.  My 89 yr old mother continues to insist on caring for him at home.  *sigh*

 

Never the less, I just wanted to make one comment:  From where does a private company get the authority and power to regulate mega corporations....many mega corporations?  And from whom do they make their profits from?  You say you don't trust the government to properly enforce regulations, but you would trust a private company?  And who provides the oversight of the private company to see that they are doing their job?  The Congress...Government? I would think adding another middle man into a process typically creates more cost and even less efficiency/efficacy.



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Dakota35
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Posted on Wed, Sep 04, 2013 02:44

Quoting Diana3316:

"Fracking is a fine technology as long as done responsibly." 

 

Right!  I'm in total agreement.  But that's the kicker with most things big corporations do.  Who's gonna make them do it responsibly????  Do you think the honor system works when more profits are at stake?

 

 


 



That is a problem.  I guess the EPA could set regulations but I don't trust the government to enforce them correctly.  From what I've experienced the government goes above and beyond what is needed, while at the same time neglecting common sense issues.

 

If there was a way for a private company to help regulate and it would be profitable for them...then we might have something.  Perhaps a company that sold the technology to clean the water from fracking.  Also, the companies doing the fracking should be required to tell what is in the liquids used in the fracking process.  As it is now they say it is proprietary info.  Not sure I buy that...I want to know what they are dumping into the ground.  This way the water could be tested...if it comes back as showing the chemicals used in fracking by a company...then that is grounds for fines, and a possible lawsuit.  So that's the only solution I can come up with at this time.  I guess paying whistle blowers for info might be another options.  The guys that work for the companies would talk if they knew they were going to get money.

 

I'm pro-business, pro-capitalism.  But not at the expense of our environment.  If there is technology to frack safely then that's what needs to happen.  I would not hold these companies to extreme demands but no toxic substance should be dumped into a abandoned well.  The water should be filtered and returned to the environment.  Sounds like such a company (filtering company) would make millions.  Seems like this filtering could be done by utilizing the NG that is already on site.  Simply use the NG to heat the contaminated water and distill it.  It may not be that easy but I'm sure it could be part of the process.  From what I understand...companies are now utilizing the NG on site to run all their equipment.  This stops the likelihood of diesel fuel spills.

 

 



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Dakota35
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Posted on Wed, Sep 04, 2013 02:09

Quoting Diana3316:

Dak,  do you have a RO system?  Does anyone have one?  I ask because I would really like to have one to produce my kitchen and shower water, but just don't know how good/efficient/reliable the commercial ones sold at the box stores.  Expensive maintenence is also a concern.

 

While I don't know about these smaller home units....I know a lot about medical grade water treatment systems.  The machine and RO filters we use are really expensive and easily fouled.  In order to treat our water we preprocess the water multiple times before the RO even sees it:

1. Sediment filter/cartridge and then a tank to remove dirt and debris

2. Carbon filter to remove the chlorine and chloramine

3. Softener to remove Calcium and other hard minerals that will scale/damage the RO filters.

4. Finally the RO filters.  Our machines typically employ 4 filters producing approx 92-96% product water.  Once product falls below 92% the filters have to be changed.  For medical grade water we also employ post RO ultra filters which are changed weekly; probably not necessary for home use.

5. A holding tank and pressure pump.

 

The Water Treatment System must be disinfected weekly because it will grow algae and other bateria since the chlorine has been removed.  Nightly the softener, carbon tank and RO filters need to be back flushed, resulting in high water useage.  Monthly the RO filters are de-scaled with a vinegar/acid solution.


 

 

Yes, I installed a R.O. years ago.  As long as you don't have well water they will last a long time between filter changes...years. (the guy that sold it to me said it was better to just replace the whole system when filter failed, not sure I believe it)  Mine is a 6 stage.  It has everything you mentioned, plus a ultraviolet filter.  Mine has a tank.  I use it for the frig. and I installed a separate faucet at my sink.  So I get my ice filtered, water in my frig. door, and if I need a gallon or more I get it from the sink faucet.

 

 

I've had no problem with calcium or hard minerals.  Silver filter will kill the bacteria (or at least will not grow in the filter) and also the UV filter before it goes in the tank.  I rarely back-flush my system. I would not do a R.O. filter for shower water.  You can just use a carbon block filter.  R.O. use a membrane and produce water very slowly.  If you have hard water then you'll need to get a softener...I think they have some that do not require media.

 

The holding tank has a bladder that is inflated.  The pressure from the water system fills the tank, the bladder is inflated to 2lbs above water pressure.  This allows the tank to empty completely and not become water logged.

 

Hope I've help answer your questions.  I'll never not have a R.O. filter on my drinking water.  Hospital R.O. systems have to be top of the line...bacteria that would normally be harmless to healthy people, would kill a person with a compromised immune system.  Yes Diane, I already know you are aware of that...you are a nurse. :-)



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Diana3316
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Posted on Tue, Sep 03, 2013 22:48

"Fracking is a fine technology as long as done responsibly." 

 

Right!  I'm in total agreement.  But that's the kicker with most things big corporations do.  Who's gonna make them do it responsibly????  Do you think the honor system works when more profits are at stake?

 

 


 



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Diana3316
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Posted on Tue, Sep 03, 2013 22:27

Dak,  do you have a RO system?  Does anyone have one?  I ask because I would really like to have one to produce my kitchen and shower water, but just don't know how good/efficient/reliable the commercial ones sold at the box stores.  Expensive maintenence is also a concern.

 

While I don't know about these smaller home units....I know a lot about medical grade water treatment systems.  The machine and RO filters we use are really expensive and easily fouled.  In order to treat our water we preprocess the water multiple times before the RO even sees it:

1. Sediment filter/cartridge and then a tank to remove dirt and debris

2. Carbon filter to remove the chlorine and chloramine

3. Softener to remove Calcium and other hard minerals that will scale/damage the RO filters.

4. Finally the RO filters.  Our machines typically employ 4 filters producing approx 92-96% product water.  Once product falls below 92% the filters have to be changed.  For medical grade water we also employ post RO ultra filters which are changed weekly; probably not necessary for home use.

5. A holding tank and pressure pump.

 

The Water Treatment System must be disinfected weekly because it will grow algae and other bateria since the chlorine has been removed.  Nightly the softener, carbon tank and RO filters need to be back flushed, resulting in high water useage.  Monthly the RO filters are de-scaled with a vinegar/acid solution.



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Dakota35
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Posted on Tue, Sep 03, 2013 03:36

Quoting MissMonteCarlo:

I don't think it is a good idea. It is going to destroy the environment. There is a good chance that our water supplies could be contaminated not to mention the earthquakes. In terms of prices of fuel coming down that is not likely to happen. The people who will benefit from this are the fat cats at the top. I thought we were meant to be going Green. We should just build more wind farms right next to Donald Trumps golf course. hehehe  I'm sure he wouldn't mind!

 

 

 

Sarah ;-)



Hello Sarah,

Do some research on what is causing the minor earthquakes.  It is not the fracking itself, it is the disposal of the chemical laced waste water used in fracking into abandoned wells, causing already weak plates to slip. (this has happened even when fracking was not involved)  Fracking is a fine technology as long as done responsibly.  Waste products from fracking should be filtered and water recovered...not dumped.  Our water supplies are being polluted from every direction.  Even the chlorine and fluoride put in the water by our government is toxic.  With correct disposal methods and attention to the environment, fracking can make our planet greener.  I'm not a fan of Donald Trump (although I have agreed at times with what he says) so if a wind farm makes him annoyed then that's humorous to me. I don't like big ego arrogant people.

 

Buy and install a R.O. filter system on your drinking water supply.



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MillionDollarBab
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Posted on Sun, Sep 01, 2013 10:17

Quoting wwww12345:

Fracking has greatly increased the supply of natural gas, the best fuel we can use..  Go Go

Oil companies don't have that great of a return on investment..  The taxes on gasoline greatly exceed the profits per gallon.

 



Hi, I feel that natural gas would be a good way to go for us for fuel.  I understand that right now we're just not set up to run things on natural gas.  That is starting to change.



Bab : )

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MissMonteCarlo
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Posted on Sun, Sep 01, 2013 05:26

I don't think it is a good idea. It is going to destroy the environment. There is a good chance that our water supplies could be contaminated not to mention the earthquakes. In terms of prices of fuel coming down that is not likely to happen. The people who will benefit from this are the fat cats at the top. I thought we were meant to be going Green. We should just build more wind farms right next to Donald Trumps golf course. hehehe  I'm sure he wouldn't mind!

 

 

 

Sarah ;-)



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wwww12345
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Posted on Sat, Aug 31, 2013 20:37

Fracking has greatly increased the supply of natural gas, the best fuel we can use..  Go Go

Oil companies don't have that great of a return on investment..  The taxes on gasoline greatly exceed the profits per gallon.

 



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eric555
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Posted on Fri, Aug 30, 2013 15:48

Yes basicly what i was thinking. Yes there are side effects. With resurch sites can be picked wich have positive outcomes with few negative issues if any. Possibly it could help midagate situations that might be caused from natural disasters later on. Then again who knows what all an earthquake will stir up just thinking it would be nice to have pulled away some of the things that coud of caused a disaster to be worse if done right it is actuly toxic clean up and recycleing to safe products nothing wrong with that



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MillionDollarBab
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Posted on Fri, Aug 30, 2013 07:14

Hi Eric, 

I feel that fracking, and domestic oil and gas production does have an environmental impact, but there are lessers of evils.  The benefits outweigh the cost.  

Cost:  Negative impact on environment.  

Benefit:  Less impact than coal.  

Benefit:  Not being reliant on foreign powers for oil. 

Benefit:  More jobs. 

Benefit:  Better economy.  

Benefit:  Less impact than nuclear in the event of a meltdown. 

Benefit:  Lower cost.  

It reminds me of a letter to the editor I once read about increasing the 55 mph speed limit.  They asked, "Do we really want to trade lives for speed?"  Obviously we do, otherwise we would be walking. 

So, it's a matter of degree.  How negative is the impact on the environment?  Are we going from pristine to catastrophic?  No.  The alternative sources are not feasible from the standpoint of current technology or cost.  The other options, I feel, are even more detrimental.  

Some have bemoaned how lucrative oil is, being more profitable than any industry in history.  First, I am curious to see the actual numbers documenting that.  But second, why is profit bad?  



Bab : )

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eric555
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Posted on Thu, Aug 29, 2013 19:55

hmm seems it's more small gasses than larger heaver compounds but tis a moot point as the studies were show the effects at a 1 km range  they gota get alot of ok's to drill in the first place as well as depth considerations granted you might not want them drilling in the middle of the lake or with in 1km of it but there are things set up to prevent that and there are lots of dry untaped areas or wells that need reopened and fracked  out in the midle of no where or perhapse in town where the sourse of drinking water was far away unlike what happened with the methaine in under the dome but aye natural disasters and quakes will let the genie out of the bottle too so it's better to uncork it in a safe place then let it happen at random with out venting a good portion of the problems they worry about  and bottleing them up safely for later use

we are not england we still got places with 1 or less person per square mile

 

and for that matter we do have our water treated even before it reaches us granted we tend to like to filter and clean the water the goverment considers to be safe  so yea pretty moot point good filtration or distillation both are ok tough you might need to add some things to the distilled water if it's for drinking

also if they haden't gone after the oil we'd be dealing with a bunch of areas covered in black gunk where oil seeps out of the ground it still does in sertaint areas but thats more a sign of gass these days my real thought is why do bizznesses keep cutting their throats leagaly trying to bankrupt the other guy with rules and regulations that they paid sheep to vote on  they need to peel back the red tape or stop shooting themselves in the foot till there is nothing anyone can do and we all have to pay the price for their greed



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MillionDollarBab
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Posted on Thu, Aug 22, 2013 22:19

Thanks Francis.  I've been awakened!



Bab : )

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g88keeper
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Posted on Thu, Aug 22, 2013 19:09

Dont't worry about being a billionth part of Chevron! watch this brilliant 8 minute film from England x

vimeo

dot

com

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you might have to retype or copy/paste that, without spaces, to see it



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