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Diana3316
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Posted on Wed, Jul 17, 2013 22:35

Dak~

 

Of course this is about race!  At least in part...the other part is the preponderance of gun violence in our society. 

 

To think it is not….is intellectually disingenuous.  You hit the trifecta of privilege!  You’re white…you’re male…and you’re heterosexual.  You have no idea what it is to be black in this country.  In truth, neither do I….but I do try to have empathy and to understand.

 

We actually have no idea what it feels like to know that for over 200 years our ancestors were held as slaves.  Following that, 150 years of Jim Crow, Ku Klux Klan, segregation and poverty.  Today, flagrant attempts at voter suppression through voter ID laws that disproportionately affect blacks, the elderly and young….verbally and publicly admitted by GOP leaders intended to impede Democrat voters.  Years of profiling and prosecuting young black males resulting in disproportionate rates of incarceration as evidenced by our prison populations. 

 

The socioeconomic battery of blacks in our society has been deliberate, ongoing and can hardly be considered forgettable.   While we may have made progress, the struggle continues.  That is why civil rights leaders had to go to Sanford….to demand a proper investigation for the slaying of an unarmed 17 year old boy.  It was not until the police allowed GZ to go free, refusing to properly investigate the case, did demonstrations occur.  And may I add that there was not one instance of violence…not ONE rock thrown during the demonstrations!  Please tell me if you know differently.

 

The last time I recall riots by the black community was after the Rodney King incident….and that was only after the 4 policemen who brutally beat him within an inch of his life….stomped on his head for Pete’s sake….all caught on video tape…were acquitted.

 

Do you know how it wouldn’t be about race???  If a 28 year old black male was out riding around in a vehicle and when he spies a 17 year old white boy walking alone in the rain, gets out of his vehicle armed with a gun that already has a bullet in the chamber….he follows the white boy, ultimately killing him with a bullet through the heart.   Do you think the jury verdict would be Not Guilty?  If it was….then…you would know it’s not about race!

 

I think not.  And it wouldn’t just be 2nd degree murder….it would be 1st degree!  If it happened in Texas the black man would likely even be executed!!

 

 

PS:  I'm going on vacation.  See you good folks in a couple of weeks.  Take good care to all.  *wink* :)))


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Dakota35
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Posted on Wed, Jul 17, 2013 17:12

Quoting Hoping4Love2000:

DAKOTA WROTE:

 

Trayvon screwed up.  Zimmerman wasn't out to shoot anyone.  Trayvon was the only one to break the law, period.  He broke it when he assaulted Zimmerman.  Zimmernam used force within his rights.  End of story for me. I feel sorry for Trayvon and his parents, but this was all caused from making a bad decision.  Just because you have a bad taste for cops or public authority, doesn't make Zimmerman in the wrong.  If you disagree, then you'll need to change the law.  You just can't make the law according to how you feel emotionally about a case.  And you must accept the judgement of the jury.  There is no way the DOJ will get involved, this case is over.  There may be a suit against Zimmerman by Trayvon's parents...which they will probably loose.  And there may also be a suit by Zimmerman against the media and maybe even the state...which he has a chance of winning. 
 ***************

DAKOTA-

You weren't there, last I checked.. 

And LIV isn't the only one who deserves respect here as well.............

AND I WANT MY QUESTIONS ANSWERED!

YOU opened the door regarding "TM HIDING AND ATTACKING GZ," I supplied a suffient POLICE photo to SHOW YOU THE CRIME SCENE AREA AND I WANT TO KNOW..

1) WHERE was the boy supposedly hiding? 

2) WHY was he on the phone during a "sudden" attack where you JUST SAID he was HIDING TO AMBUSH!

3) WHO showed the perpencity for "aggression" that night? The "man" who followed someone who was walking where he could be walking, then dialed 911, was instructed his "help" was NOT necessary further, the police were on the way, mumbled to the operator he lost the boy, and did not respond to her after she said not to follow him, (He didn't respond due to him NOT complying--- he followed him) but suddenly he was OUT OF THE TRUCK HE DIALED THE CALL IN, and suddenly the BOY was the one who ambushed him? Hmmm...  I have a vast amount of COMMON SENSE here... Doesn't appear right. 

4) WHAT was GZ doing following a boy in the rain? Apparently, he failed his criminal justice class where they let you know, crime goes DOWN in BAD WEATHER... Burglars don't like to steal stuff that will ruin in the rain.... And news flash for EVERYONE... Burglars don't usually walk around in the rain with NO GETAWAY car... The stuff they steal wuld get ruined... not to mention it's not easy carrying flat screens in the rain! Like DUH?? 

5) WHEN trail occurred, TM's past had NOTHING to do w/ THAT NIGHT. He was walking from the store VERY SOBER BY CORONER'S REPORT.... with a bag of candy and an ice tea and some change in his pocket. NO WEAPONS, not even a pocket or army/swiss knife and according to reports, NO VIOLENCE charges against him, EVER... In fact, had never been in real trouble... a little pot expulsion? Well, we're going to have to place 50% of teenagers in juvy now and 25% of adults in prison if ever being caught w/ a little weed deems a huge crime! 

 

See DAKOTA- YOU are being lead by ONE SIDE of the media... I see BOTH sides and then I do the research to see who is correct! I am basing my allegations ON FACT! 

As LIV stated, you are making "allegatins" and listening to the media. Then your "biased" mentality against tats--- WTH!! Just B/C you don't like tattoos holds no bearing on the kid. My son got a tat when he turned 18, he has NEVER been arrested or been in trouble and makes about $60K a year at the age of 23...

 

LEARN HOW TO READ THE LAW.... I copied the LAW off FLORIDA STATE COLLEGE--- That school and STETSON are the colleges knowin in FLORIDA for legal school. 

 

The prosecution asked for too high a charge here, just as in the Casey Anthony trial... 

 

And so far as my disliking cops. NO, I dislike ONE cop who created discord in my life. I have a close friend who is a cop in Dallas, (although we may have to sever ties if she doesn't quit beating me in "Words wih Friends!") I worked with a retired Sheriff in real estate I am buds with, another retired Sheriff helped me during my own court trial. I also have other "police friends" I am not as close to, but I do admire. 

 

It's called BALANCE....

 

Ironic to me how many of the same people scream for GUN RIGHTS, yet deny a little boy, his 17th birthday only 3 weeks prior, had no right to be left alone on a street to his skittles, his iced tea, and his private phone call... 

 

There ARE bad cops out there, and the one who offended me? LOST HIS JOB!!!

 



  Hope this subject is over for me.  I wasn't lead by conservative media.  I watched Queen B Nancy Grace.  You are correct, I wasn't there...I'm glad that you were so that you could get me straight on what happened.  You have a right to your opinion just as I have a right to mine.  You keep using the term "little boy" well this little boy was larger in size than me.  I can tell you straight up, If I'm out on neighborhood watch and a person of 6ft stature punches me and then jumps on top, if I have a gun I will use it.  Trayvon was wearing a hood so there is no way to tell he was young, nor his color in the dark.  I'm sure Zimmerman could tell he wasn't white, but there are many dark races in the world other than African American.  I'm tired of this subject, not angry, just tired...it has been taken to a level that never should have happened.  I blame the media and the civil rights leaders. I give them credit for moving back time and dividing the races.  They should be the ones put in prison for inciting public disorder.   Oh, and I agree with RMAC, a jury of 6 IMO is to few.  12 does seem like a better number.  And it would be wrong to select a jury based on color...that is racism.  RMac suggestion that there should be some black women with sons the age of Trayvon on the jury, is wrong.  Just as suggesting there should be mothers of Hispanic police officers who have lost their sons on duty.  The idea is to select a fair jury, not select a jury with predisposed bias. 



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rmac22
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Posted on Wed, Jul 17, 2013 11:52

 

Jury of one's peers

 

 

I looked it up. 

 

 

This has been interpreted by the courts to mean that the available jurors include a broad spectrum of the population, particularly of race, national origin and gender. Jury selection may include no process which excludes those of a particular race or intentionally narrows the spectrum of possible jurors. It does not mean that women are to be tried by women, Asians by Asians, or African Americans by African Americans.

 

 

Six jurors seems small to me, but different state / courts?  I am more familiar with 12. 

 

 

It still seems odd that no black people were on the jury. 

 

 

 

RMac

 

 

 



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Hoping4Love2000
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Posted on Wed, Jul 17, 2013 07:55

DAKOTA WROTE:

 

Trayvon screwed up.  Zimmerman wasn't out to shoot anyone.  Trayvon was the only one to break the law, period.  He broke it when he assaulted Zimmerman.  Zimmernam used force within his rights.  End of story for me. I feel sorry for Trayvon and his parents, but this was all caused from making a bad decision.  Just because you have a bad taste for cops or public authority, doesn't make Zimmerman in the wrong.  If you disagree, then you'll need to change the law.  You just can't make the law according to how you feel emotionally about a case.  And you must accept the judgement of the jury.  There is no way the DOJ will get involved, this case is over.  There may be a suit against Zimmerman by Trayvon's parents...which they will probably loose.  And there may also be a suit by Zimmerman against the media and maybe even the state...which he has a chance of winning. 
 ***************

DAKOTA-

You weren't there, last I checked.. 

And LIV isn't the only one who deserves respect here as well.............

AND I WANT MY QUESTIONS ANSWERED!

YOU opened the door regarding "TM HIDING AND ATTACKING GZ," I supplied a suffient POLICE photo to SHOW YOU THE CRIME SCENE AREA AND I WANT TO KNOW..

1) WHERE was the boy supposedly hiding? 

2) WHY was he on the phone during a "sudden" attack where you JUST SAID he was HIDING TO AMBUSH!

3) WHO showed the perpencity for "aggression" that night? The "man" who followed someone who was walking where he could be walking, then dialed 911, was instructed his "help" was NOT necessary further, the police were on the way, mumbled to the operator he lost the boy, and did not respond to her after she said not to follow him, (He didn't respond due to him NOT complying--- he followed him) but suddenly he was OUT OF THE TRUCK HE DIALED THE CALL IN, and suddenly the BOY was the one who ambushed him? Hmmm...  I have a vast amount of COMMON SENSE here... Doesn't appear right. 

4) WHAT was GZ doing following a boy in the rain? Apparently, he failed his criminal justice class where they let you know, crime goes DOWN in BAD WEATHER... Burglars don't like to steal stuff that will ruin in the rain.... And news flash for EVERYONE... Burglars don't usually walk around in the rain with NO GETAWAY car... The stuff they steal wuld get ruined... not to mention it's not easy carrying flat screens in the rain! Like DUH?? 

5) WHEN trail occurred, TM's past had NOTHING to do w/ THAT NIGHT. He was walking from the store VERY SOBER BY CORONER'S REPORT.... with a bag of candy and an ice tea and some change in his pocket. NO WEAPONS, not even a pocket or army/swiss knife and according to reports, NO VIOLENCE charges against him, EVER... In fact, had never been in real trouble... a little pot expulsion? Well, we're going to have to place 50% of teenagers in juvy now and 25% of adults in prison if ever being caught w/ a little weed deems a huge crime! 

 

See DAKOTA- YOU are being lead by ONE SIDE of the media... I see BOTH sides and then I do the research to see who is correct! I am basing my allegations ON FACT! 

As LIV stated, you are making "allegatins" and listening to the media. Then your "biased" mentality against tats--- WTH!! Just B/C you don't like tattoos holds no bearing on the kid. My son got a tat when he turned 18, he has NEVER been arrested or been in trouble and makes about $60K a year at the age of 23...

 

LEARN HOW TO READ THE LAW.... I copied the LAW off FLORIDA STATE COLLEGE--- That school and STETSON are the colleges knowin in FLORIDA for legal school. 

 

The prosecution asked for too high a charge here, just as in the Casey Anthony trial... 

 

And so far as my disliking cops. NO, I dislike ONE cop who created discord in my life. I have a close friend who is a cop in Dallas, (although we may have to sever ties if she doesn't quit beating me in "Words wih Friends!") I worked with a retired Sheriff in real estate I am buds with, another retired Sheriff helped me during my own court trial. I also have other "police friends" I am not as close to, but I do admire. 

 

It's called BALANCE....

 

Ironic to me how many of the same people scream for GUN RIGHTS, yet deny a little boy, his 17th birthday only 3 weeks prior, had no right to be left alone on a street to his skittles, his iced tea, and his private phone call... 

 

There ARE bad cops out there, and the one who offended me? LOST HIS JOB!!!

 



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Dakota35
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Posted on Wed, Jul 17, 2013 04:48

Quoting Livnlov:

Diana - Thank you so much for your very well reasoned and articulate response.

 

RMac - Thanks a lot.

 

DAK - You are doing nothing but conjecturing. Trayvon made a bad decision by defending himself against someone who was following him in the dark and against Police orders? I bet Zimmerman made the right decision to take Trayvon's LIFE? The issue of riot will not arise if it was a black man and a black boy because more likely than not the black man will rightly be serving time for the MURDER he committed. When there is obviously a miscarriage of justice, whitewashing the judgement to fit the reconstructed story adds insult to injury. The boy deserved to die because he was being followed and he dared to defend himself against this. Why on earth did Zimmerman not obey the Police's order not to follow. I guess we can all just take a walk into out streets and follow anyone we do not like and when they challenge us, that becomes licence for us to shoot them down. The sad thing about this judgement is the precedence it creates for more murders! Open hunting season againt young black men! This is a disgrace!

 

PAT - Describing a young man as a monster or bloody neanderthal must be a very convenient argument to justify his murder - he is not dead - he was killed. Does this description as a neanderthal somewhat but effectively remove his right to life whereby he can be gunned down and deprived of his right to life? How does one act respectfully towards a stranger who is following you at night? What evidence do you have that this boy was a bigot against whites? Talk about speaking ill of the dead? I am interested to know why all the evidence pointing against Zimmerman has been completely ignored? What prevented Zimmerman from identifying himself as a neighbourhood watch in time and at all to Trayvon? Why did Zimmerman feel it necessary to disobey 911 instruction not to follow this kid? Is that to you the action of a man who was truly afraid of Trayvon? Why does someone with such history as a child sexual molester, a wife batterer, assaulted a Police Officer, and one who had consumed medication that interferred with his mental and visual capacity on the night of the murder get a free pass, yet his victim is somehow at fault. His father is a Judge, so he gets away with a lot! Sadly that is no news. But one more question that begs to be asked is why pull a gun? Trayvon was unarmed. If he indeed jumped him because of Zimmerman's refusal to follow 911 orders not to follow and Zimmerman's failure to identify himself to Trayvon, why did he use his gun on an unarmed child? Why did he not punch the lights out of Trayvon? Fist for fist, eh?

 

I see this sort of nonsense much too often, but I could never get used to it. 

 

This child was murdered, no matter what the court or the media or some of us may say. And this killer should serve the term for manslaughter in the least. That is the law when a human life has been taken in error and unintentionally, even if that human is deemed to be a monster. But I guess the law changes when it pertains to certain people.

 

Witness protection program is for witnesses who help prosecution, not for child-killers who got away with it for whatever reason! Zimmerman deserves no protection. Since he did the right thing, why should he be afraid? Heck, he might actually be followed by a strange dark figure at night and if he challenges his strange follower, he can be shot down at point blank range without any consequences because the new rule is if you are being followed by a stranger at night and you challenge that stranger, expect to be gunned down! That is the precedence his case has left and it should not be a very bad thing if it happens to him, should it? What goes around comes around!

 

I am very disappointed indeed!

 

Liv.



Liv you know how much I respect you, but you are letting emotions guide your opinion and not the law.  You do not understand the spin that the US media has put on this case.  Please understand the reason why the media has done such is not out of concern for Trayvon, but in order to get viewers/ratings.  I cannot confirm all that Diane said about Zimmerman, but there are bad things to find about Trayvon as well.  He is shown with guns, tats, flashing gang symbols, jewelry on his bed that was not his.  But none of this pertained to the case...I think it all should come out with both Zimmerman and Trayvon, but that's not how the justice system works.  I think Hoping has already explained how she looked over the Internet and found conflicting reports.  There is so much false info out there that it has to be really confirmed before spreading.  Some are just lies.  I base my opinion of this case from watching a liberal media outlet.  If in fact Zimmerman is as bad as Diane says, then it will just be a matter of time before he is behind bars.  I repeat, this was not about race.  Liv, don't do what the media has done, add fuel to the fire.  This was simply a horrible chain of events.  In Georgia a black man walked up to a lady with her baby in a stroller in a attempt to mug, he shot the baby point blank (white baby).  Now was this a racial crime and should it be tried as so?  We don't know, but unless we have some definitive proof then we must say no.  We all know OJ was guilty of murder (killed 2 white people), but there was no such riots or protest, just civil disappointment among those that disagreed...and no screams of racism at least from the white community.  And ultimately OJ got what he deserved.  I also must remind you that Zimmerman is Hispanic and not white.  I would so like to crack a joke at this point, but this is a serious matter. :(   

 

If screams of racism are heard every time some bad event happen that involves different races, it will soon become of no value.  Just like the boy that cried wolf.  There needs to be definitive proof and then all races should be outraged.  Trayvon used racial terms while talking on the phone to a friend before he died.  Is that what makes this racial...of course not.  Nor do I feel upset about it at all.  Laws must apply to all races equally. 

 

Liv you are far away from where this happened.  I live a state away (Fl borders AL).  I live very close (within a few miles) to the once most racially divided city in the USA.  I've driven by the 16th street Baptist church many many times where 4 little back girls lost their lives.  That is a racial crime and the turning point of the civil rights movement in American...because both black, white, and all other races were outraged.  Calling Zimmerman/Trayvon trial racial minimizes the memory of such a horrific event, and takes away from the power and importants of the moment.  I'm happy to report that B'ham AL is riot free and civil.  I guess we've just evolve more than other parts of the country.  We all get along quite well down here despite what the rest of the country may believe.

 

Liv, I said I would not comment again on this matter but you know I hold you in high regard, so I felt that you deserved my reply.  You have every right to disagree, but just make sure you know all the details and how the law in FL is written.  Otherwise you can just base your opinion on emotions, which we all do from time to time.  I'm still outraged about what you shared about that island and public officials...I've had some bad thoughts regarding that.  But I would need to know without doubt to justify acting on my thoughts...that is the problem all of us here are not completely in the know. 



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Livnlov
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Posted on Tue, Jul 16, 2013 21:02

Quoting jomo1983:

rmac -

A defendant is guaranteed a jury of his peers. What you seem to be asking is for the victim to have racial representation on a jury.

 

Diana - while appalling, none of that stuff is relevant to this case. Since your first sentence decries the demonization of defendants, not sure where you're going with this


Diana wrote:


 
 "It seems curious that black men are so often profiled as monsters, but never allowed to be the ones afraid of monsters!  How does a lone 17 year old black kid walking done the street, just trying to get home, become the scary one?



Let's take a closer look at George Zimmerman’s Criminal History.  As a Child up to his late teens, for a decade, he is accused by his female cousin of sexually molesting her beginning when she was 6 years old.  As an Adult, physically abused his Ex-Wife; she had a Restraining Order against him and later the Charges were dropped.  He assaulted a Police Officer and interfered when the Officer was arresting one of his friends at a Bar.  He had to take Anger Management Courses and later those Charges were once again dropped.  Now he Stalked and Killed an Unarmed 17 year old child after he disobeyed the 911 Operator's instructions not to follow. 


He also admitted to Police that night that he was taking Prescription Drugs Xanex and Adderall, which are known to cause "worsening mental or mood problems (eg, aggression, anxiety, delusions, depression, hallucination, hostility) and also Temazepam which can cause hyperhydrosis, hypotension, burning eyes, changes in libido, hallucinations.  The Jury wasn't allowed to hear this and they let him walk.



Note:  Marijuana has no side effects such as aggression or agitation.  It should also be noted that the level in Trayvon’s blood was well below the level for impairment.



All his life, because of the status of his Father, who was a Judge and his Mother and Uncle who also work in the Courts, Zimmerman has able to get away with crimes that would have had anyone else behind bars or at least with a Criminal Record which would have disallowed him from possessing a Gun Legally.  His crimes have escalated from Molester to Wife Beater to Assaulting Police Officers to now Murder and once again he is getting away with it. 



The Criminal Case is over, but the way Zimmerman has been escalating his crimes and been allowed to get away with them, time will tell when he will once again commit another crime.  George Zimmerman is a Serial Criminal.



The dignity in which the Martin family has conducted themselves throughout this horrible ordeal is nothing short of extraordinary.  I just can’t believe that this could happen like this. "



 

 

 

 

Jomo, I am compelled to ask you what you find irrelevant to the case, in the above post written by Diana? If anything, it clearly and articulately lays out the bare bones of the case in an evidential manner. Exactly what issues do you have with it?


 


Liv.



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Livnlov
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Posted on Tue, Jul 16, 2013 20:30

Diana - Thank you so much for your very well reasoned and articulate response.

 

RMac - Thanks a lot.

 

DAK - You are doing nothing but conjecturing. Trayvon made a bad decision by defending himself against someone who was following him in the dark and against Police orders? I bet Zimmerman made the right decision to take Trayvon's LIFE? The issue of riot will not arise if it was a black man and a black boy because more likely than not the black man will rightly be serving time for the MURDER he committed. When there is obviously a miscarriage of justice, whitewashing the judgement to fit the reconstructed story adds insult to injury. The boy deserved to die because he was being followed and he dared to defend himself against this. Why on earth did Zimmerman not obey the Police's order not to follow. I guess we can all just take a walk into out streets and follow anyone we do not like and when they challenge us, that becomes licence for us to shoot them down. The sad thing about this judgement is the precedence it creates for more murders! Open hunting season againt young black men! This is a disgrace!

 

PAT - Describing a young man as a monster or bloody neanderthal must be a very convenient argument to justify his murder - he is not dead - he was killed. Does this description as a neanderthal somewhat but effectively remove his right to life whereby he can be gunned down and deprived of his right to life? How does one act respectfully towards a stranger who is following you at night? What evidence do you have that this boy was a bigot against whites? Talk about speaking ill of the dead? I am interested to know why all the evidence pointing against Zimmerman has been completely ignored? What prevented Zimmerman from identifying himself as a neighbourhood watch in time and at all to Trayvon? Why did Zimmerman feel it necessary to disobey 911 instruction not to follow this kid? Is that to you the action of a man who was truly afraid of Trayvon? Why does someone with such history as a child sexual molester, a wife batterer, assaulted a Police Officer, and one who had consumed medication that interferred with his mental and visual capacity on the night of the murder get a free pass, yet his victim is somehow at fault. His father is a Judge, so he gets away with a lot! Sadly that is no news. But one more question that begs to be asked is why pull a gun? Trayvon was unarmed. If he indeed jumped him because of Zimmerman's refusal to follow 911 orders not to follow and Zimmerman's failure to identify himself to Trayvon, why did he use his gun on an unarmed child? Why did he not punch the lights out of Trayvon? Fist for fist, eh?

 

I see this sort of nonsense much too often, but I could never get used to it. 

 

This child was murdered, no matter what the court or the media or some of us may say. And this killer should serve the term for manslaughter in the least. That is the law when a human life has been taken in error and unintentionally, even if that human is deemed to be a monster. But I guess the law changes when it pertains to certain people.

 

Witness protection program is for witnesses who help prosecution, not for child-killers who got away with it for whatever reason! Zimmerman deserves no protection. Since he did the right thing, why should he be afraid? Heck, he might actually be followed by a strange dark figure at night and if he challenges his strange follower, he can be shot down at point blank range without any consequences because the new rule is if you are being followed by a stranger at night and you challenge that stranger, expect to be gunned down! That is the precedence his case has left and it should not be a very bad thing if it happens to him, should it? What goes around comes around!

 

I am very disappointed indeed!

 

Liv.



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Dakota35
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Posted on Tue, Jul 16, 2013 18:02

Quoting Hoping4Love2000:

That's right DAKOTA--

 

Its called:

  Territorial Privacy

  • An individual has a right to privacy in her home, workplace and other public spaces. She may not be searched, be put under video surveillance or be submitted to ID checks. Florida law states that the right of people to be secure in their persons, papers, houses and effects against unreasonable interception of private communications by any means shall not be violated.

    THE RIGHT TO PRIVACY

    Privacy can be defined as a fundamental (though not an absolute) human right. The law of privacy can be traced as far back as 1361, when the Justices of the Peace Act in England provided for the arrest of peeping toms and eavesdroppers. [fn 17] In 1765, British Lord Camden, striking down a warrant to enter a house and seize papers wrote, "We can safely say there is no law in this country to justify the defendants in what they have done; if there was, it would destroy all the comforts of society, for papers are often the dearest property any man can have." [fn 18] Parliamentarian William Pitt wrote, "The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the force of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow though it; the storms may enter; the rain may enter -- but the King of England cannot enter; all his forces dare not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement."

    (Further down page)

    On the regional level, these rights are becoming enforceable. The 1950 Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms, [fn 25] Article 8 states:

     

    (1) Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence. (2) There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except as in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health of morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

    1) ZIMMER not even public authority-- just a "wanna be"

    2) The kid had never even been arrested for burglary, etc... He was expelled from school DOWN SOUTH, for pot.. Who cares? Half the population in HS is guilty of this... 

    3) ZIMMER admitted he did not know who he was, so knew nothing of him even being a HS kid with a few issues...

     

    You do not have the right to just go up to people and ask them why they are somewhere, UNLESS it is YOUR property. THIS IS A FREE COUNTRY!!! When someone "stalks" another, or "follows" them, they place the individuals "territorial and privacy right's" on the line.... 




Everyone should have a right to privacy, but it is not against the law to ask someone in public what is their purpose for being there.  Of course they don't have to answer.  Also, in a public place your rights are less than in a privately owned property, especially if you are the owner.

 

A few months ago, two men were in a driveway of a property that I own.  I was told by a neighbor that they were there and I should check it out.  I put my Colt 45 1911 in my truck and head up to see what was their business.  Got out of my truck and said "this is my property and may I ask what is your business here?"  To which they replied, "we are with the state and we are blowing up beaver dams"  I laughed and told them that I had heard the explosions and thought it was the local dump trucks dumping their load.  We had a nice conversation and I went on my way.  I didn't get taken to jail or anything for asking.  And although they were in the drive, they were more than likely on county road easement.

 

Trayvon screwed up.  Zimmerman wasn't out to shoot anyone.  Trayvon was the only one to break the law, period.  He broke it when he assaulted Zimmerman.  Zimmernam used force within his rights.  End of story for me. I feel sorry for Trayvon and his parents, but this was all caused from making a bad decision.  Just because you have a bad taste for cops or public authority, doesn't make Zimmerman in the wrong.  If you disagree, then you'll need to change the law.  You just can't make the law according to how you feel emotionally about a case.  And you must accept the judgement of the jury.  There is no way the DOJ will get involved, this case is over.  There may be a suit against Zimmerman by Trayvon's parents...which they will probably loose.  And there may also be a suit by Zimmerman against the media and maybe even the state...which he has a chance of winning. 

 

Also, Obama needs to keep his trap shut.  The Media has made this a racial thing when it is not.  The Media has divided citizens of this country.  Obama's job is to lead the country and keep peace, not get involved by giving his opinion of a trial that would have never been heard by the nation if it were not for Trayvon being black.  The fact that preferential treatment was given by the press because Trayvon was black...that is racism.  Why doesn't Obama make a comment on the Chicago killings???  Or where are the civil rights leaders calling for peace in Chicago and marching???  These people seek to divide for their own gain.

 

This is my last comment on this matter.  I see the direction of this country.  If Zimmerman would have been convicted, my life would be the same, him being acquitted and my life is the same.  Crap happens every day, I give my opinion because that's my nature, but it's probably much wiser and less time consuming to just keep quite.  So I'll accept if you call me a fool.  This Zimmerman/Trayvon trial has been blown up by the media.  Those who have gotten so intertwined in such to take life effecting positions (as in protest, riots) have been totally manipulated by the media.

 

I respect everyone's opinion but my opinion is that justice was served in this case...unlike OJ case, or Casey Anthony.



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Dakota35
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Posted on Tue, Jul 16, 2013 17:23

Quoting rmac22:

I might start carrying myself, but only on my walks.  Might just strap it on my hip as that is legal no special permit required in VA.  This only because I recently was attacked again by a pit bull.  I had a walking stick and was able to back him off.  He apparently knew what that meant and was careful to stay out of range. 

 

 

A dumber pit bull might have been a problem.

 

 

RMac

 

 

 



You should.



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Hoping4Love2000
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Posted on Tue, Jul 16, 2013 13:12

Quoting Dakota35:

 

 

 

 

Quoting Hoping " NO ONE has the "RIGHT" to come to me and question me as I am ALLOWED the liberty to enjoy my life in "QUIET ENJOYMENT!" <------ THAT is the LAW!! "

 


So you are saying, that if I walk up to you in a public place and ask you why are you here today...then you can call the cops and have me arrested?  Damned if you don't learn something every day. 



That's right DAKOTA--

 

Its called:

  Territorial Privacy

  • An individual has a right to privacy in her home, workplace and other public spaces. She may not be searched, be put under video surveillance or be submitted to ID checks. Florida law states that the right of people to be secure in their persons, papers, houses and effects against unreasonable interception of private communications by any means shall not be violated.

    THE RIGHT TO PRIVACY

    Privacy can be defined as a fundamental (though not an absolute) human right. The law of privacy can be traced as far back as 1361, when the Justices of the Peace Act in England provided for the arrest of peeping toms and eavesdroppers. [fn 17] In 1765, British Lord Camden, striking down a warrant to enter a house and seize papers wrote, "We can safely say there is no law in this country to justify the defendants in what they have done; if there was, it would destroy all the comforts of society, for papers are often the dearest property any man can have." [fn 18] Parliamentarian William Pitt wrote, "The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the force of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow though it; the storms may enter; the rain may enter -- but the King of England cannot enter; all his forces dare not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement."

    (Further down page)

    On the regional level, these rights are becoming enforceable. The 1950 Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms, [fn 25] Article 8 states:

     

    (1) Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence. (2) There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except as in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health of morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

    1) ZIMMER not even public authority-- just a "wanna be"

    2) The kid had never even been arrested for burglary, etc... He was expelled from school DOWN SOUTH, for pot.. Who cares? Half the population in HS is guilty of this... 

    3) ZIMMER admitted he did not know who he was, so knew nothing of him even being a HS kid with a few issues...

     

    You do not have the right to just go up to people and ask them why they are somewhere, UNLESS it is YOUR property. THIS IS A FREE COUNTRY!!! When someone "stalks" another, or "follows" them, they place the individuals "territorial and privacy right's" on the line.... 



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Hoping4Love2000
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Posted on Tue, Jul 16, 2013 12:38

Quoting Dakota35:

Hoping you do realize that Zimmerman was following Trayvon, then lost him.  Trayvon was hiding waiting for Zimmerman, then sucker punched him, then jumped on him.  Zimmerman's nose was broken, that take a pretty hard hit.  I would bet that most people if they had a gun would respond in the same manner.  My first thought would be, I have a gun and if this guy gets his hands on it I'm dead, if I can get to it, I'm going to use it.

 

 


Yes DAKOTA---

 

 

 

I ALWAYS talk on my cell phone with one of my needed "violent hitting hands" and stash needless stuff in my pockets like Skittles that might interfere with my "fighting skills",,,, and I go ahead and leave my money in my pocket so it can possibly get lost during a fight,,,,,

 

you know,,,, when I am "lying in wait" to "attack" someone...

 

 

 

I also would be overheard asking the dude, "Why are you following me?" You know, since I am "sneak" attacking him and all while hiding... 

 

"YO-HOO! The Princess is over here hiding and going to ATTACK YOU!! But FIRST things first! Why are you following me? Oh crap, I am still on the phone. Let me end this call. Hold on a sec." 

 

 

 

Clearly of the 2 of us, I am the only one who has been sucker punched... Guess what? They don't ask questions, and they aren't on their cell phones having a conversation!

 

 

 

 

 

I would NEVER think, 

 

"Hey, I'm gonna hit this dude for following me, let me take my phone out of my hand and stash it safely so it doesn't crack and break, and let me put my chocolate bar down so it doesn't get squashed! And I can use my Arizona tea can as a weapon. That will hurt him more than my fist!" 

 

 

 

Oh, that's right.... The boy carried Skittles, hard to smush them, so no worries, and his tea was found still in his pocket. Dumb azz kid.. Should have used his can as a weapon. That's what they do in prison! 

 

 

 

I DO NOT FOR ONE MINUTE BELIEVE ZIMMERS ACCOUNT,,,,,  AT ALL...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is the REAL STORY we are NOT hearing because someone is dead... and ZIMMER knew NOT to take the stand B/C his story won't add up...

 

 

 

And BTW.. I know the neighborhood and how houses are there, and there was nowhere for the young man to "hide" and jump out and attack him! 

 

 

 

Further, you say you would use your gun "if the guy gets his hands on you."

 

 

 

GUESS WHAT DAKOTA---

 

 

 

THAT ISN'T "GROUND" FOR "STAND YOUR GROUND" RIGHTS!! 

 

 

 

Now let me see,,,,,  where would I be hiding while talking on my cell phone waiting to "attack" someone... BUt I'm going to ask them WHY they are following me first! Gotta give the beneft of the doubt... Oh crap, I'm hungry.... I think I need a skittle....


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rmac22
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Posted on Tue, Jul 16, 2013 07:26

Quoting Diana3316:

RMac~

Thank you....but it doesn't feel better.  It's so profoundly tragic!  When will we try do something about this horrid infection our society is facing?  More people carrying weapons in the public domain maybe?  I feel I might be sick!



I might start carrying myself, but only on my walks.  Might just strap it on my hip as that is legal no special permit required in VA.  This only because I recently was attacked again by a pit bull.  I had a walking stick and was able to back him off.  He apparently knew what that meant and was careful to stay out of range. 

 

 

A dumber pit bull might have been a problem.

 

 

RMac

 

 

 



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Dakota35
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Posted on Tue, Jul 16, 2013 05:56

 

 

 

 

Quoting Hoping " NO ONE has the "RIGHT" to come to me and question me as I am ALLOWED the liberty to enjoy my life in "QUIET ENJOYMENT!" <------ THAT is the LAW!! "

 


So you are saying, that if I walk up to you in a public place and ask you why are you here today...then you can call the cops and have me arrested?  Damned if you don't learn something every day. 



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Dakota35
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Posted on Tue, Jul 16, 2013 05:45

Quoting greenkindeyes:

My 15 year old is 6'6" and appears to be a grown man.  As a mother of a boy who's been in trouble, been in fights and generally experienmented with pot, had my son been the topic of conversation I would not poke a finger at an individual that responded as Zimmerman did.

As a Brown Belt, anytime you initiate a conflict you must assume that you've poked a hornets nest.  A resonable person without a predispositioned to fight, would have raised hell VERBALLY and confronted the person following them without physical contact.  The boy made a fatal mistake and took his mentality using justified violence to resolving his issue with Zimmerman and his choices got him killed.  WOULD ANY OF US AS PARENTS TELL OUR CHILD THEY HAD A RIGHT TO JUMP SOMEONE AND PUMMEL THEM BECAUSE THEY WERE ANNOYED?  I feel for the parents, I do.  I pray my son will make better choices, as it is a miricle that my son hasn't made a stupid choice as of yet that could be just as tragic.

No one wants to hurt a child, there's no "Season on Black Male Children" and it's horrifying anyone would say such a thing.

 



Very good response.  You might want to get your son's pituitary gland checked, it could be producing to much GH. (Acromegaly)  15 and 6'6" seems a little much.



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Dakota35
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Posted on Tue, Jul 16, 2013 05:38

Quoting Hoping4Love2000:

PAT,

 

Sad fact: You are CORRECT... If this had been a black man shooting a black boy in a neighborhood, NO ONE would have heard about it.. Funny that ZIMMER isn't even white!!

 

I do not hold issue with any "stand your ground" laws.. 

 

I hold issue with the fact we can't walk down a neighborhood and if someone doesn't recognise us, calls us out making us respond... 

 

And YES, THE MEDIA!!! It's SCUM!!! They do not print proper information.. That's exactly why I posted how big/little the boy was... One article reads 140, anther 200 lbs at 6'2"!! 

 



Hoping you do realize that Zimmerman was following Trayvon, then lost him.  Trayvon was hiding waiting for Zimmerman, then sucker punched him, then jumped on him.  Zimmerman's nose was broken, that take a pretty hard hit.  I would bet that most people if they had a gun would respond in the same manner.  My first thought would be, I have a gun and if this guy gets his hands on it I'm dead, if I can get to it, I'm going to use it.

 

 



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Hoping4Love2000
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Posted on Mon, Jul 15, 2013 22:14

Quoting rmac22:

Hi Dakota,

 

 

Maybe the jury should follow the law, but the truth is once they go back into their deliberations they are the law.  They may try their best to follow the rules as laid out by the judge, but often (and maybe always) emotions play a huge part in the decision. 

 

 

Racism was a part of this from the get go.  It just seems strange that no black persons were on the jury.  If they feel they were not fairly represented by their peers I would not blame them. 

 

 

Why might I have gone back to beat the crap out of him?  I might not have, I was generally pretty respectful of adults.   So, had he been behaving in a non-threatening way I likely would have given him the benefit of the doubt and listened to his story. 

 

 

However if he had scared the crap out of me, followed me with no cause and no uniform, and chased me with a motor vehicle.  I might have confronted him and if his identity was not forthcoming quickly enough I might have decked him. 

 

 

Why?  When I was in grade school I was always the youngest in my class.  Everyone was a year older.  My kindergarten year was uneventful.  My teacher loved me and my older brother was at the same facility.  No one dared touch me. 

 

 

My older brother went on to high school the following year.  Different teacher.  I was bullied by everyone.  It did not stop until I could hit the meanest of the lot harder than he could hit me.  This happened maybe as early as the second grade.   Running away had pretty much been erased from my options.

 

 

So, I don’t know, I might have decked him.  I would not have jumped on top of him. 

 

 

Today I am saner than last night.  Tomorrow, no promises.

 

 

 

RMac
 

 



Our Dear RMAC----

 

Have you gained your SANITY yet???? 

 

Well, don't feel badly.... Now I guess it's my turn for the TIME-OUT CHAIR!! 

 

I do feel this kid hit the school bully.... 

 

He just wasn't wise enough to realise the man was a pansy and didn't know how to hit back, but he was packing... :(

 

I know I've talked enough, so I just want to know the answers to my questions.... 

 

But ZIMMER didn't have to take the stand... 

 

Hi Lovely Lady DI-- Not ignoring you, but know I have blown up my thoughts enough for all!! I know nothing of ZIMMER and the meds, molestation, etc.. And I only saw fragments of the trial.. 

Hope you are doing well!! ;) 

And Lady DI--- As a professional nurse, why don't you tell the public what "people beaten within an inch of their lives REALLY looks like.. " It isn't a few scratches to their head.. Had he really been pummelled as he says, his entire head would have been cracked open, esp since he was shaven. 



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Diana3316
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Posted on Mon, Jul 15, 2013 22:09

Quoting Hoping4Love2000:

INJURIES:

 

According to the CORONER'S REPORT----

 

MARTIN  had a very small cut by his finger.... (see BOTTOM of picture)

AND NO OTHER INJURIES... (--- other than fatal shot)

 

Was Martin left handed? I find it curious his tiny injury was on LEFT hand, as most right handed males lead while punching with their right hand. 

 

 



GZ sustained a broken nose and then supposedly TM was covering his nose and mouth.  GZ said he couldn't breathe, yet we are to believe it was him screaming for help just prior to the shot.  It doesn't seem logical that TM had no blood on his hands from that broken nose.....and why didn't GZ ever once declare to TM that he was Neighborhood Watch in order to diffuse the altercation?

 

I have a bad feeling about Zimmerman and there are just too many things about him and what he said happened....that don't pass the smell test for me.  



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Hoping4Love2000
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Posted on Mon, Jul 15, 2013 21:49

Quoting greenkindeyes:

My 15 year old is 6'6" and appears to be a grown man.  As a mother of a boy who's been in trouble, been in fights and generally experienmented with pot, had my son been the topic of conversation I would not poke a finger at an individual that responded as Zimmerman did.

As a Brown Belt, anytime you initiate a conflict you must assume that you've poked a hornets nest.  A resonable person without a predispositioned to fight, would have raised hell VERBALLY and confronted the person following them without physical contact.  The boy made a fatal mistake and took his mentality using justified violence to resolving his issue with Zimmerman and his choices got him killed.  WOULD ANY OF US AS PARENTS TELL OUR CHILD THEY HAD A RIGHT TO JUMP SOMEONE AND PUMMEL THEM BECAUSE THEY WERE ANNOYED?  I feel for the parents, I do.  I pray my son will make better choices, as it is a miricle that my son hasn't made a stupid choice as of yet that could be just as tragic.

No one wants to hurt a child, there's no "Season on Black Male Children" and it's horrifying anyone would say such a thing.

 


Well Hello GREENKINDEYES!! Nice to see you here! ;) 

 

OH MY! 6'6"!! Mine is 23 and "only" 6'2" and 198 lbs! AMAZING they came out of us isnt it!! HOW DO THEY GROW SO MUCH! I recall when mine was born, my sis in law said, "OH Zachary is going to be tall!!" I'm thinking to myself, "Yeah right!" 

 

GREEN--- The issue I hold is ZIMMER was the aggressor! He knew nothing of this boy, and HE followed and HE approached him! I do NOT feel he had that right! Further, digging into ZIMMER, I find he has had a VIOLENT past, had a restraining order on him by an ex, had a battery on a LEO, (Law Enforcement Officer) and was such a vigilanty he contacted 911 over 40 times in the past in that neighborhood!

 

To me, he was a hot head with a gun who pushed his way into neighborhood watch, as the subdivision itself stated a watch "was not necessary." Then he pushed his way by following a "suspect with skittles" ... 

 

I also do NOT believe the boy had ANY idea the man packed a gun, nor did he NEED to approach him!! Bottom line I suppose for me is; I DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING WENT DOWN AS ZIMMERMAN SAID, but no one else is alive to tell their side! 

 

Yes, teens act "stupid!" SO DO ADULTS! And this adult showed "poor decision making" time and again.. George Zimmerman had a predisposition to FIGHT! Thats why his ex had a restraining order on him and that's why he was arrested previously. I wonder what the jurors will think when they finally hear about those things to display his frame of mind? AND, as a 28 year old man who HAD been in trouble with the law when he was far older than this boy, well, seems he would be a little more understanding and a bit more cautious when approaching! POOR JUDGMENT!!

 

And as for pot? Jeez... 50% of teens smoke pot regularly.. WHO CARES? Pot doesn't make people wild and violent.. XANNIE, ALCOHOL, etc.. now those drugs do... And the trace amount of THC showed he was NOT high at all, as it was said after burning a joint you would have 100-200 in your system. He had next to nothing... so he hadn't smoked in some time.. 

 

But I do feel PAT summed it up best when she said, had this been a black man shooting a black boy, NO ONE WOULD KNOW--- B/C it happens EVERY DAY!!! 

 

So glad you came to join us here! I could not tell who you were referring to on your comments on STUNNING'S blog, so allow me to WELCOME you again! We are a diverse group here, and I think you will truly enjoy yourself! We range from staunch liberals to the conservatives with a bow tie in here!

 

Me? I guess as usual, I'm stuck being squashed, somewhere in the middle lane! 

 

THANKS for SHARING!! ;)

 

 

 

PS... Does your boy play basketball? Or is he 2-left feet and you get sick of ppl asking! ;) 

 

 

 

 



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Diana3316
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Posted on Mon, Jul 15, 2013 21:43

Quoting jomo1983:

rmac -

A defendant is guaranteed a jury of his peers. What you seem to be asking is for the victim to have racial representation on a jury.

 

Diana - while appalling, none of that stuff is relevant to this case. Since your first sentence decries the demonization of defendants, not sure where you're going with this



Jomo~

I'm not sure what your question is.  I was sharing my observations and thoughts.



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Diana3316
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Posted on Mon, Jul 15, 2013 21:39

Quoting rmac22:

Diana, I like your response better than mine. 

 

RMac



RMac~

Thank you....but it doesn't feel better.  It's so profoundly tragic!  When will we try do something about this horrid infection our society is facing?  More people carrying weapons in the public domain maybe?  I feel I might be sick!



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