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rmac...
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Posted on Wed, Jul 17, 2013 11:52

 

Jury of one's peers

 

 

I looked it up. 

 

 

This has been interpreted by the courts to mean that the available jurors include a broad spectrum of the population, particularly of race, national origin and gender. Jury selection may include no process which excludes those of a particular race or intentionally narrows the spectrum of possible jurors. It does not mean that women are to be tried by women, Asians by Asians, or African Americans by African Americans.

 

 

Six jurors seems small to me, but different state / courts?  I am more familiar with 12. 

 

 

It still seems odd that no black people were on the jury. 

 

 

 

RMac

 

 

 



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Posted on Wed, Jul 17, 2013 07:55

DAKOTA WROTE:

 

Trayvon screwed up.  Zimmerman wasn't out to shoot anyone.  Trayvon was the only one to break the law, period.  He broke it when he assaulted Zimmerman.  Zimmernam used force within his rights.  End of story for me. I feel sorry for Trayvon and his parents, but this was all caused from making a bad decision.  Just because you have a bad taste for cops or public authority, doesn't make Zimmerman in the wrong.  If you disagree, then you'll need to change the law.  You just can't make the law according to how you feel emotionally about a case.  And you must accept the judgement of the jury.  There is no way the DOJ will get involved, this case is over.  There may be a suit against Zimmerman by Trayvon's parents...which they will probably loose.  And there may also be a suit by Zimmerman against the media and maybe even the state...which he has a chance of winning. 
 ***************

DAKOTA-

You weren't there, last I checked.. 

And LIV isn't the only one who deserves respect here as well.............

AND I WANT MY QUESTIONS ANSWERED!

YOU opened the door regarding "TM HIDING AND ATTACKING GZ," I supplied a suffient POLICE photo to SHOW YOU THE CRIME SCENE AREA AND I WANT TO KNOW..

1) WHERE was the boy supposedly hiding? 

2) WHY was he on the phone during a "sudden" attack where you JUST SAID he was HIDING TO AMBUSH!

3) WHO showed the perpencity for "aggression" that night? The "man" who followed someone who was walking where he could be walking, then dialed 911, was instructed his "help" was NOT necessary further, the police were on the way, mumbled to the operator he lost the boy, and did not respond to her after she said not to follow him, (He didn't respond due to him NOT complying--- he followed him) but suddenly he was OUT OF THE TRUCK HE DIALED THE CALL IN, and suddenly the BOY was the one who ambushed him? Hmmm...  I have a vast amount of COMMON SENSE here... Doesn't appear right. 

4) WHAT was GZ doing following a boy in the rain? Apparently, he failed his criminal justice class where they let you know, crime goes DOWN in BAD WEATHER... Burglars don't like to steal stuff that will ruin in the rain.... And news flash for EVERYONE... Burglars don't usually walk around in the rain with NO GETAWAY car... The stuff they steal wuld get ruined... not to mention it's not easy carrying flat screens in the rain! Like DUH?? 

5) WHEN trail occurred, TM's past had NOTHING to do w/ THAT NIGHT. He was walking from the store VERY SOBER BY CORONER'S REPORT.... with a bag of candy and an ice tea and some change in his pocket. NO WEAPONS, not even a pocket or army/swiss knife and according to reports, NO VIOLENCE charges against him, EVER... In fact, had never been in real trouble... a little pot expulsion? Well, we're going to have to place 50% of teenagers in juvy now and 25% of adults in prison if ever being caught w/ a little weed deems a huge crime! 

 

See DAKOTA- YOU are being lead by ONE SIDE of the media... I see BOTH sides and then I do the research to see who is correct! I am basing my allegations ON FACT! 

As LIV stated, you are making "allegatins" and listening to the media. Then your "biased" mentality against tats--- WTH!! Just B/C you don't like tattoos holds no bearing on the kid. My son got a tat when he turned 18, he has NEVER been arrested or been in trouble and makes about $60K a year at the age of 23...

 

LEARN HOW TO READ THE LAW.... I copied the LAW off FLORIDA STATE COLLEGE--- That school and STETSON are the colleges knowin in FLORIDA for legal school. 

 

The prosecution asked for too high a charge here, just as in the Casey Anthony trial... 

 

And so far as my disliking cops. NO, I dislike ONE cop who created discord in my life. I have a close friend who is a cop in Dallas, (although we may have to sever ties if she doesn't quit beating me in "Words wih Friends!") I worked with a retired Sheriff in real estate I am buds with, another retired Sheriff helped me during my own court trial. I also have other "police friends" I am not as close to, but I do admire. 

 

It's called BALANCE....

 

Ironic to me how many of the same people scream for GUN RIGHTS, yet deny a little boy, his 17th birthday only 3 weeks prior, had no right to be left alone on a street to his skittles, his iced tea, and his private phone call... 

 

There ARE bad cops out there, and the one who offended me? LOST HIS JOB!!!

 



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Posted on Tue, Jul 16, 2013 21:02

Quoting jomo1983:

rmac -

A defendant is guaranteed a jury of his peers. What you seem to be asking is for the victim to have racial representation on a jury.

 

Diana - while appalling, none of that stuff is relevant to this case. Since your first sentence decries the demonization of defendants, not sure where you're going with this


Diana wrote:


 
 "It seems curious that black men are so often profiled as monsters, but never allowed to be the ones afraid of monsters!  How does a lone 17 year old black kid walking done the street, just trying to get home, become the scary one?



Let's take a closer look at George Zimmerman’s Criminal History.  As a Child up to his late teens, for a decade, he is accused by his female cousin of sexually molesting her beginning when she was 6 years old.  As an Adult, physically abused his Ex-Wife; she had a Restraining Order against him and later the Charges were dropped.  He assaulted a Police Officer and interfered when the Officer was arresting one of his friends at a Bar.  He had to take Anger Management Courses and later those Charges were once again dropped.  Now he Stalked and Killed an Unarmed 17 year old child after he disobeyed the 911 Operator's instructions not to follow. 


He also admitted to Police that night that he was taking Prescription Drugs Xanex and Adderall, which are known to cause "worsening mental or mood problems (eg, aggression, anxiety, delusions, depression, hallucination, hostility) and also Temazepam which can cause hyperhydrosis, hypotension, burning eyes, changes in libido, hallucinations.  The Jury wasn't allowed to hear this and they let him walk.



Note:  Marijuana has no side effects such as aggression or agitation.  It should also be noted that the level in Trayvon’s blood was well below the level for impairment.



All his life, because of the status of his Father, who was a Judge and his Mother and Uncle who also work in the Courts, Zimmerman has able to get away with crimes that would have had anyone else behind bars or at least with a Criminal Record which would have disallowed him from possessing a Gun Legally.  His crimes have escalated from Molester to Wife Beater to Assaulting Police Officers to now Murder and once again he is getting away with it. 



The Criminal Case is over, but the way Zimmerman has been escalating his crimes and been allowed to get away with them, time will tell when he will once again commit another crime.  George Zimmerman is a Serial Criminal.



The dignity in which the Martin family has conducted themselves throughout this horrible ordeal is nothing short of extraordinary.  I just can’t believe that this could happen like this. "



 

 

 

 

Jomo, I am compelled to ask you what you find irrelevant to the case, in the above post written by Diana? If anything, it clearly and articulately lays out the bare bones of the case in an evidential manner. Exactly what issues do you have with it?


 


Liv.



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Posted on Tue, Jul 16, 2013 20:30

Diana - Thank you so much for your very well reasoned and articulate response.

 

RMac - Thanks a lot.

 

DAK - You are doing nothing but conjecturing. Trayvon made a bad decision by defending himself against someone who was following him in the dark and against Police orders? I bet Zimmerman made the right decision to take Trayvon's LIFE? The issue of riot will not arise if it was a black man and a black boy because more likely than not the black man will rightly be serving time for the MURDER he committed. When there is obviously a miscarriage of justice, whitewashing the judgement to fit the reconstructed story adds insult to injury. The boy deserved to die because he was being followed and he dared to defend himself against this. Why on earth did Zimmerman not obey the Police's order not to follow. I guess we can all just take a walk into out streets and follow anyone we do not like and when they challenge us, that becomes licence for us to shoot them down. The sad thing about this judgement is the precedence it creates for more murders! Open hunting season againt young black men! This is a disgrace!

 

PAT - Describing a young man as a monster or bloody neanderthal must be a very convenient argument to justify his murder - he is not dead - he was killed. Does this description as a neanderthal somewhat but effectively remove his right to life whereby he can be gunned down and deprived of his right to life? How does one act respectfully towards a stranger who is following you at night? What evidence do you have that this boy was a bigot against whites? Talk about speaking ill of the dead? I am interested to know why all the evidence pointing against Zimmerman has been completely ignored? What prevented Zimmerman from identifying himself as a neighbourhood watch in time and at all to Trayvon? Why did Zimmerman feel it necessary to disobey 911 instruction not to follow this kid? Is that to you the action of a man who was truly afraid of Trayvon? Why does someone with such history as a child sexual molester, a wife batterer, assaulted a Police Officer, and one who had consumed medication that interferred with his mental and visual capacity on the night of the murder get a free pass, yet his victim is somehow at fault. His father is a Judge, so he gets away with a lot! Sadly that is no news. But one more question that begs to be asked is why pull a gun? Trayvon was unarmed. If he indeed jumped him because of Zimmerman's refusal to follow 911 orders not to follow and Zimmerman's failure to identify himself to Trayvon, why did he use his gun on an unarmed child? Why did he not punch the lights out of Trayvon? Fist for fist, eh?

 

I see this sort of nonsense much too often, but I could never get used to it. 

 

This child was murdered, no matter what the court or the media or some of us may say. And this killer should serve the term for manslaughter in the least. That is the law when a human life has been taken in error and unintentionally, even if that human is deemed to be a monster. But I guess the law changes when it pertains to certain people.

 

Witness protection program is for witnesses who help prosecution, not for child-killers who got away with it for whatever reason! Zimmerman deserves no protection. Since he did the right thing, why should he be afraid? Heck, he might actually be followed by a strange dark figure at night and if he challenges his strange follower, he can be shot down at point blank range without any consequences because the new rule is if you are being followed by a stranger at night and you challenge that stranger, expect to be gunned down! That is the precedence his case has left and it should not be a very bad thing if it happens to him, should it? What goes around comes around!

 

I am very disappointed indeed!

 

Liv.



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Posted on Tue, Jul 16, 2013 13:12

Quoting Dakota35:

 

 

 

 

Quoting Hoping " NO ONE has the "RIGHT" to come to me and question me as I am ALLOWED the liberty to enjoy my life in "QUIET ENJOYMENT!" <------ THAT is the LAW!! "

 


So you are saying, that if I walk up to you in a public place and ask you why are you here today...then you can call the cops and have me arrested?  Damned if you don't learn something every day. 



That's right DAKOTA--

 

Its called:

  Territorial Privacy

  • An individual has a right to privacy in her home, workplace and other public spaces. She may not be searched, be put under video surveillance or be submitted to ID checks. Florida law states that the right of people to be secure in their persons, papers, houses and effects against unreasonable interception of private communications by any means shall not be violated.

    THE RIGHT TO PRIVACY

    Privacy can be defined as a fundamental (though not an absolute) human right. The law of privacy can be traced as far back as 1361, when the Justices of the Peace Act in England provided for the arrest of peeping toms and eavesdroppers. [fn 17] In 1765, British Lord Camden, striking down a warrant to enter a house and seize papers wrote, "We can safely say there is no law in this country to justify the defendants in what they have done; if there was, it would destroy all the comforts of society, for papers are often the dearest property any man can have." [fn 18] Parliamentarian William Pitt wrote, "The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the force of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow though it; the storms may enter; the rain may enter -- but the King of England cannot enter; all his forces dare not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement."

    (Further down page)

    On the regional level, these rights are becoming enforceable. The 1950 Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms, [fn 25] Article 8 states:

     

    (1) Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence. (2) There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except as in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health of morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

    1) ZIMMER not even public authority-- just a "wanna be"

    2) The kid had never even been arrested for burglary, etc... He was expelled from school DOWN SOUTH, for pot.. Who cares? Half the population in HS is guilty of this... 

    3) ZIMMER admitted he did not know who he was, so knew nothing of him even being a HS kid with a few issues...

     

    You do not have the right to just go up to people and ask them why they are somewhere, UNLESS it is YOUR property. THIS IS A FREE COUNTRY!!! When someone "stalks" another, or "follows" them, they place the individuals "territorial and privacy right's" on the line.... 



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Posted on Tue, Jul 16, 2013 12:38

Quoting Dakota35:

Hoping you do realize that Zimmerman was following Trayvon, then lost him.  Trayvon was hiding waiting for Zimmerman, then sucker punched him, then jumped on him.  Zimmerman's nose was broken, that take a pretty hard hit.  I would bet that most people if they had a gun would respond in the same manner.  My first thought would be, I have a gun and if this guy gets his hands on it I'm dead, if I can get to it, I'm going to use it.

 

 


Yes DAKOTA---

 

 

 

I ALWAYS talk on my cell phone with one of my needed "violent hitting hands" and stash needless stuff in my pockets like Skittles that might interfere with my "fighting skills",,,, and I go ahead and leave my money in my pocket so it can possibly get lost during a fight,,,,,

 

you know,,,, when I am "lying in wait" to "attack" someone...

 

 

 

I also would be overheard asking the dude, "Why are you following me?" You know, since I am "sneak" attacking him and all while hiding... 

 

"YO-HOO! The Princess is over here hiding and going to ATTACK YOU!! But FIRST things first! Why are you following me? Oh crap, I am still on the phone. Let me end this call. Hold on a sec." 

 

 

 

Clearly of the 2 of us, I am the only one who has been sucker punched... Guess what? They don't ask questions, and they aren't on their cell phones having a conversation!

 

 

 

 

 

I would NEVER think, 

 

"Hey, I'm gonna hit this dude for following me, let me take my phone out of my hand and stash it safely so it doesn't crack and break, and let me put my chocolate bar down so it doesn't get squashed! And I can use my Arizona tea can as a weapon. That will hurt him more than my fist!" 

 

 

 

Oh, that's right.... The boy carried Skittles, hard to smush them, so no worries, and his tea was found still in his pocket. Dumb azz kid.. Should have used his can as a weapon. That's what they do in prison! 

 

 

 

I DO NOT FOR ONE MINUTE BELIEVE ZIMMERS ACCOUNT,,,,,  AT ALL...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is the REAL STORY we are NOT hearing because someone is dead... and ZIMMER knew NOT to take the stand B/C his story won't add up...

 

 

 

And BTW.. I know the neighborhood and how houses are there, and there was nowhere for the young man to "hide" and jump out and attack him! 

 

 

 

Further, you say you would use your gun "if the guy gets his hands on you."

 

 

 

GUESS WHAT DAKOTA---

 

 

 

THAT ISN'T "GROUND" FOR "STAND YOUR GROUND" RIGHTS!! 

 

 

 

Now let me see,,,,,  where would I be hiding while talking on my cell phone waiting to "attack" someone... BUt I'm going to ask them WHY they are following me first! Gotta give the beneft of the doubt... Oh crap, I'm hungry.... I think I need a skittle....


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Posted on Tue, Jul 16, 2013 07:26

Quoting Diana3316:

RMac~

Thank you....but it doesn't feel better.  It's so profoundly tragic!  When will we try do something about this horrid infection our society is facing?  More people carrying weapons in the public domain maybe?  I feel I might be sick!



I might start carrying myself, but only on my walks.  Might just strap it on my hip as that is legal no special permit required in VA.  This only because I recently was attacked again by a pit bull.  I had a walking stick and was able to back him off.  He apparently knew what that meant and was careful to stay out of range. 

 

 

A dumber pit bull might have been a problem.

 

 

RMac

 

 

 



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Posted on Mon, Jul 15, 2013 22:14

Quoting rmac22:

Hi Dakota,

 

 

Maybe the jury should follow the law, but the truth is once they go back into their deliberations they are the law.  They may try their best to follow the rules as laid out by the judge, but often (and maybe always) emotions play a huge part in the decision. 

 

 

Racism was a part of this from the get go.  It just seems strange that no black persons were on the jury.  If they feel they were not fairly represented by their peers I would not blame them. 

 

 

Why might I have gone back to beat the crap out of him?  I might not have, I was generally pretty respectful of adults.   So, had he been behaving in a non-threatening way I likely would have given him the benefit of the doubt and listened to his story. 

 

 

However if he had scared the crap out of me, followed me with no cause and no uniform, and chased me with a motor vehicle.  I might have confronted him and if his identity was not forthcoming quickly enough I might have decked him. 

 

 

Why?  When I was in grade school I was always the youngest in my class.  Everyone was a year older.  My kindergarten year was uneventful.  My teacher loved me and my older brother was at the same facility.  No one dared touch me. 

 

 

My older brother went on to high school the following year.  Different teacher.  I was bullied by everyone.  It did not stop until I could hit the meanest of the lot harder than he could hit me.  This happened maybe as early as the second grade.   Running away had pretty much been erased from my options.

 

 

So, I don’t know, I might have decked him.  I would not have jumped on top of him. 

 

 

Today I am saner than last night.  Tomorrow, no promises.

 

 

 

RMac
 

 



Our Dear RMAC----

 

Have you gained your SANITY yet???? 

 

Well, don't feel badly.... Now I guess it's my turn for the TIME-OUT CHAIR!! 

 

I do feel this kid hit the school bully.... 

 

He just wasn't wise enough to realise the man was a pansy and didn't know how to hit back, but he was packing... :(

 

I know I've talked enough, so I just want to know the answers to my questions.... 

 

But ZIMMER didn't have to take the stand... 

 

Hi Lovely Lady DI-- Not ignoring you, but know I have blown up my thoughts enough for all!! I know nothing of ZIMMER and the meds, molestation, etc.. And I only saw fragments of the trial.. 

Hope you are doing well!! ;) 

And Lady DI--- As a professional nurse, why don't you tell the public what "people beaten within an inch of their lives REALLY looks like.. " It isn't a few scratches to their head.. Had he really been pummelled as he says, his entire head would have been cracked open, esp since he was shaven. 



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Posted on Mon, Jul 15, 2013 22:09

Quoting Hoping4Love2000:

INJURIES:

 

According to the CORONER'S REPORT----

 

MARTIN  had a very small cut by his finger.... (see BOTTOM of picture)

AND NO OTHER INJURIES... (--- other than fatal shot)

 

Was Martin left handed? I find it curious his tiny injury was on LEFT hand, as most right handed males lead while punching with their right hand. 

 

 



GZ sustained a broken nose and then supposedly TM was covering his nose and mouth.  GZ said he couldn't breathe, yet we are to believe it was him screaming for help just prior to the shot.  It doesn't seem logical that TM had no blood on his hands from that broken nose.....and why didn't GZ ever once declare to TM that he was Neighborhood Watch in order to diffuse the altercation?

 

I have a bad feeling about Zimmerman and there are just too many things about him and what he said happened....that don't pass the smell test for me.  



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Posted on Mon, Jul 15, 2013 21:49

Quoting greenkindeyes:

My 15 year old is 6'6" and appears to be a grown man.  As a mother of a boy who's been in trouble, been in fights and generally experienmented with pot, had my son been the topic of conversation I would not poke a finger at an individual that responded as Zimmerman did.

As a Brown Belt, anytime you initiate a conflict you must assume that you've poked a hornets nest.  A resonable person without a predispositioned to fight, would have raised hell VERBALLY and confronted the person following them without physical contact.  The boy made a fatal mistake and took his mentality using justified violence to resolving his issue with Zimmerman and his choices got him killed.  WOULD ANY OF US AS PARENTS TELL OUR CHILD THEY HAD A RIGHT TO JUMP SOMEONE AND PUMMEL THEM BECAUSE THEY WERE ANNOYED?  I feel for the parents, I do.  I pray my son will make better choices, as it is a miricle that my son hasn't made a stupid choice as of yet that could be just as tragic.

No one wants to hurt a child, there's no "Season on Black Male Children" and it's horrifying anyone would say such a thing.

 


Well Hello GREENKINDEYES!! Nice to see you here! ;) 

 

OH MY! 6'6"!! Mine is 23 and "only" 6'2" and 198 lbs! AMAZING they came out of us isnt it!! HOW DO THEY GROW SO MUCH! I recall when mine was born, my sis in law said, "OH Zachary is going to be tall!!" I'm thinking to myself, "Yeah right!" 

 

GREEN--- The issue I hold is ZIMMER was the aggressor! He knew nothing of this boy, and HE followed and HE approached him! I do NOT feel he had that right! Further, digging into ZIMMER, I find he has had a VIOLENT past, had a restraining order on him by an ex, had a battery on a LEO, (Law Enforcement Officer) and was such a vigilanty he contacted 911 over 40 times in the past in that neighborhood!

 

To me, he was a hot head with a gun who pushed his way into neighborhood watch, as the subdivision itself stated a watch "was not necessary." Then he pushed his way by following a "suspect with skittles" ... 

 

I also do NOT believe the boy had ANY idea the man packed a gun, nor did he NEED to approach him!! Bottom line I suppose for me is; I DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING WENT DOWN AS ZIMMERMAN SAID, but no one else is alive to tell their side! 

 

Yes, teens act "stupid!" SO DO ADULTS! And this adult showed "poor decision making" time and again.. George Zimmerman had a predisposition to FIGHT! Thats why his ex had a restraining order on him and that's why he was arrested previously. I wonder what the jurors will think when they finally hear about those things to display his frame of mind? AND, as a 28 year old man who HAD been in trouble with the law when he was far older than this boy, well, seems he would be a little more understanding and a bit more cautious when approaching! POOR JUDGMENT!!

 

And as for pot? Jeez... 50% of teens smoke pot regularly.. WHO CARES? Pot doesn't make people wild and violent.. XANNIE, ALCOHOL, etc.. now those drugs do... And the trace amount of THC showed he was NOT high at all, as it was said after burning a joint you would have 100-200 in your system. He had next to nothing... so he hadn't smoked in some time.. 

 

But I do feel PAT summed it up best when she said, had this been a black man shooting a black boy, NO ONE WOULD KNOW--- B/C it happens EVERY DAY!!! 

 

So glad you came to join us here! I could not tell who you were referring to on your comments on STUNNING'S blog, so allow me to WELCOME you again! We are a diverse group here, and I think you will truly enjoy yourself! We range from staunch liberals to the conservatives with a bow tie in here!

 

Me? I guess as usual, I'm stuck being squashed, somewhere in the middle lane! 

 

THANKS for SHARING!! ;)

 

 

 

PS... Does your boy play basketball? Or is he 2-left feet and you get sick of ppl asking! ;) 

 

 

 

 



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Posted on Mon, Jul 15, 2013 21:43

Quoting jomo1983:

rmac -

A defendant is guaranteed a jury of his peers. What you seem to be asking is for the victim to have racial representation on a jury.

 

Diana - while appalling, none of that stuff is relevant to this case. Since your first sentence decries the demonization of defendants, not sure where you're going with this



Jomo~

I'm not sure what your question is.  I was sharing my observations and thoughts.



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Posted on Mon, Jul 15, 2013 21:39

Quoting rmac22:

Diana, I like your response better than mine. 

 

RMac



RMac~

Thank you....but it doesn't feel better.  It's so profoundly tragic!  When will we try do something about this horrid infection our society is facing?  More people carrying weapons in the public domain maybe?  I feel I might be sick!



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Posted on Mon, Jul 15, 2013 21:27

Quoting Curious2078:

I agree about that "cracker" comment. "Cracker" doesn't bother me at all either. 

I have no problem with FL's stand your ground law.  I think it's a good law. 

 

True as true can be that if this had been a black on black crime none of us outside of FL would ever have heard of it.

 

I'm not so sure the question needs to be what does this say about America as the question needs to be :"what does this this say about the media?" 

 

 

 



PAT,

 

Sad fact: You are CORRECT... If this had been a black man shooting a black boy in a neighborhood, NO ONE would have heard about it.. Funny that ZIMMER isn't even white!!

 

I do not hold issue with any "stand your ground" laws.. 

 

I hold issue with the fact we can't walk down a neighborhood and if someone doesn't recognise us, calls us out making us respond... 

 

And YES, THE MEDIA!!! It's SCUM!!! They do not print proper information.. That's exactly why I posted how big/little the boy was... One article reads 140, anther 200 lbs at 6'2"!! 

 



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Posted on Mon, Jul 15, 2013 18:43

Quoting Curious2078:

And I would not have attacked Zimmerman.  I would have been respectful, had a nice conversation, swallowed my pride if need be, and moved on.

 

I think Trayvon went beserk.  Saw the whole issue as a racial issue; decided to attack.  He was much stronger than the mushy bodied Zimmerman; thought he could overpower him, and attacked.  That's when the real story begins, in my opinion.

 

Trayvon acted like a bloody Neanderthal.  End of story.  Now he's dead.  Too bad.  I feel for his parents.  But not much for Trayvon himself.  He acted like a bigoted, prejudiced against "whites" [since Zimmerman apparently appeared to be white--at least he appeared to be other than Black] kid with an ax to grind.  End of story as far as I'm concerned.

 

And while I don't think much of Zimmerman as a "man," I hope and pray he can find a way to go on living in a state of something less than fear.  The man may have to be put into Witness Protection to go on with his life.  Very sad all in all indeed.

 

 



OH My, PAT, this is more a rarity for us... We typically align fairly well...

 

My thoughts on your thoughts?

 

TRUTH IS PAT---

 

We DON'T know WHO hit first??? NO ONE saw the first blow, they only saw that TRAYVON had the upper hand. 

 

But, if we FOLLOW THE "PATTERN OF AGGRESSION," 

 

chances denote ZIMMER struck first. 

His personality in the past with his over 40 911 calls, as well as his behaviors that night show:

 

ZIMMER 

1) Followed the boy

2) Dialed 911

3) Followed him AFTER alerting authorities

4) Got out of his truck after being told this was not a wise move

5) Approached the boy

 

NOWHERE in those case of events does it shed light as MARTIN being the aggrassive one... 

 

I am curious... 

 

WHY would you consider the whole thing "began" AFTER ZIMMER approached the boy? 

To me, that is like saying if you walk my street and I don't recognise you, (BTW.. The neighborhood of Twin Lakes? 40% BLACK...) 

 

Well, that is like saying, if I see you walking around my apartment complex and I do not recognise you, I have EVERY RIGHT to approach you and asked you "What the hell you are doing here?" 

 

Guess what? I do NOT have that right.. YOU have the right to privacy and everyone is to leave you be unless we see you comitting a crime. 

 

It is very sad, and I do think it is in ZIMMERS best interest of his family to go into witness protection... He was an over-zealous hot head with a gun... who had previously been in an altercation w/ a cop as well as had an ex put a restraining order on him for VIOLENCE!! (He only got one on her to retaliate against her for her getting one on him... which displays his VINDICTIVE nature!) 

Once again, 

REPUBLICANS FAILED US!!

 

The POWERS THAT BE FIGHTING TO KEEP GUN RIGHTS SHOULD BE SCREAMING AT THE TOP OF THEIR LUNGS SAYING, 

"Following someone, calling the cops, then approaching the same individual you just notified the cops of, only to lead this individual to believe you are stalking them, or placing them in harm's way which ends in an altercation with them does NOT dictate a person having the right to pull out a gun and shooting someone to their death! THIS IS NOT WHAT STAND YOUR GROUND MEANS!!!" 

 

STAND YOUR GROUND MEANS---- 

If someone is using DEADLY FORCE against you, and is trying to KILL YOU, you may use whatever means available to KILL THEM FIRST!

 

Looking at ZIMMERS "scratches," and YES, he had SCRATCHES for God sakes.. (HAVE NONE OF YOU EVER BEEN IN A FIGHT OR PUNCHED BY A MAN!)

 

Looking at his SCRATCES, he was not beat within an inch of his life and was nowhere near being beat within an inch of his life!

 

I am FOR gun rights----- ALL gun rights!!!

 

But when a man is not even hit hard enough in the face to leave BLACK EYES, (when someone hits your nose hard, GUESS WHAT? Your eyes turn black, and he said the punch in the nose was the first punch!! )

Then you havent been hit hard enough to pull out a gun!!

 

Fact is:

 

Those "Do-Gooder" NAACP guys got involved MAKING IT RACIALLY MOTIVATED----

And the GUN RIGHT Activist got involved making it about "PROTECTION,"

 

AND EVERYBODY MISSED THE POINT!!  

 

This ISN'T a POLITICAL DEBATE!!

 

Its about a MINOR CHILD who had just turned 17 only days before, being CONFRONTED by a man HOLDING NO AUTHORITY WHATSOEVER TO CONFRONT HIM.

 

Had ZIMMER followed the letter of the law and respected this CHILD'S RIGHT to walk in the neighborhood not commiting harm to ANYONE,

WE WOULDN'T BE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION!

COLOUR and GUNS have no bearing here, but BOTH SIDES have stated otherwise...

And WHY?  

B/C everybody has their head up their azz and is turning one man's POOR DECISION MAKING into a POLITICAL AGENDA!!!! 

 

Know what a face looks like when somene has the upper hand on you? 

This lady's face is much like what mine has looked like before---

and guess what?

I LIVED TO TELL ABOUT IT! 

 


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greenkindey...
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Posted on Mon, Jul 15, 2013 17:35

My 15 year old is 6'6" and appears to be a grown man.  As a mother of a boy who's been in trouble, been in fights and generally experienmented with pot, had my son been the topic of conversation I would not poke a finger at an individual that responded as Zimmerman did.

As a Brown Belt, anytime you initiate a conflict you must assume that you've poked a hornets nest.  A resonable person without a predispositioned to fight, would have raised hell VERBALLY and confronted the person following them without physical contact.  The boy made a fatal mistake and took his mentality using justified violence to resolving his issue with Zimmerman and his choices got him killed.  WOULD ANY OF US AS PARENTS TELL OUR CHILD THEY HAD A RIGHT TO JUMP SOMEONE AND PUMMEL THEM BECAUSE THEY WERE ANNOYED?  I feel for the parents, I do.  I pray my son will make better choices, as it is a miricle that my son hasn't made a stupid choice as of yet that could be just as tragic.

No one wants to hurt a child, there's no "Season on Black Male Children" and it's horrifying anyone would say such a thing.

 



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Hoping4Love20...
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Posted on Mon, Jul 15, 2013 17:13

Quoting Dakota35:

The problem is that neither person was breaking the law.  It was legal for both to be out in a public area.  Zimmerman may very well wanted to be a cop and been over zealous (not against the law).  He should have not followed Trayvon (hindsight is 20/20) but by choosing to follow he did not break the law.  Nor did he break the law to question why Trayvon was in the area.  It was Zimmerman's concern since he lived in that area and he was part of the neighborhood watch.  But he should have let the real police do their job (but as we know the real police don't always get there in time).  I've broken up robberies and waited 20 min. on the cops to show. 

 

Now this is what I believe happened and why I think it was a unfortunate tragedy set off by a chain of events.  Zimmerman wanted to be a cop.  He wanted to catch the person that had been breaking into neighbors homes.  It was probably part of a ego, "I want to be the hero" thing.  Trayvon, was a young man, rather tall (much bigger than Zimmerman).  He had youth and testosterone flowing through his veins.  Someone was following him.  He probably thought, I'm going to beat the crap out of this dude if he doesn't stop following me.  So when Zimmerman confronted Trayvon, Trayvon punched him, then jumped on top.  Zimmerman pulled out a gun and shot Trayvon, not realizing he was so young.  Actually, I don't think Zimmerman pulled a gun out, I think he had it in his hand and the gun and his hand in his pocket. It just makes sense. 

 

So just a tragedy.  But, do I believe that Zimmerman followed Trayvon with the intent to kill, NO.  Do I believe Zimmerman is sorry for what happened, now knowing the truth, Yes.  The guy has gained a huge amount of weight.  Did Zimmerman break the law by following, NO.  Was Zimmerman within his rights to defend himself, Yes.  Of course we really don't know what happened that night.  But it seems to be the general consensus that Trayvon physically attacked first.  If that is true, then Zimmerman was within his legal rights.

 

I was once young (I think) and I know exactly how it feels when the testosterone levels are sky high.  It gives a invincible feeling.  It can also get a young man in a huge amount of trouble.

 

Lastly you said; "Do I think the boy attacked him? I think the boy didn't know why this strange man was following him and approaching him, so yes, I'm sure he probably did. I'd attack a man doing this to me as well!"  Most people ,if given the chance, do not attack someone that is following them, they run and try to get away.  Attacks usually occur when someone is  cornered and not given a choice.  Even as strong as I am and I feel very secure in defending myself, I would have ran or if someone had questioned me, I would have answered from a distance.  I'm wise enough to know that even the smallest of people can pull the trigger of a gun, doesn't matter if I can defend myself or not.  I'm going to try to get away first. 

 

There are no winners in such a horrible tragedy.  Everyone has their opinion on guilty or not.  Truth is, that none of us were on the jury.  The jury has made it's decision.  We have to live with that decision.  We all want the justice system to be perfect and it isn't always.  We have to trust that the men and women on that jury after hearing everything, made the correct decision. 

 

PS  I've also experience the "John Wayne Syndrome" cop, and he threatened to take me to jail.  He shut up after two other officers came on the scene and sided with me.  I hated cops that night, then the next night I ran into a lady cop that was so nice and helpful.  So you just have to know your rights and take cops on a individual bases.  I agree, there are plenty of bad cops...they think they are above the citizens and get a power-trip out of their position of authority.



BREAKING YOUR THOUGHTS DOWN:

 

Trayvon was defintiely NOT breaking ANY laws.. Now ZIMMER, well, had I been on the jury, I would have asked ONE MAIN QUESTION....

 

"WHAT was ZIMMER's REASONING in approaching an individual he felt was NOT to be in the area? He had alerted the police." Does he hold a lack for policing authority? As if they are incapable of doing their job?

 

I recognise a 911 operator holds NO authority to "order" anyone to do anything, but, the 911 operator did say, "We don't need you to follow him." So WHY did HE choose to approach the boy after he already stated he was in the truck?" 

 

This took several movements AND a "thought process." 

THE INCIDENT OCCURRED FAR AWAY FROM THE TRUCK, WHICH LEAVES ANY HALF BRAIN INDIVIDUAL TO DEDUCE ZIMMER APPROACHED MARTIN.

 

WHY???????? 

 

I am allowed to walk anywhere I want so long as there are not signs posted stating NO TRESPASSING... NO ONE has the "RIGHT" to come to me and question me as I am ALLOWED the liberty to enjoy my life in "QUIET ENJOYMENT!" <------ THAT is the LAW!!! Even a COP needs to have sufficient reason to address me, just as they need probable cause to search my vehicle.

 

So NO DAKOTA, you are NOT allowed to just walk up to someone you don't know and start infringing on their PRIVACY RIGHTS...

 

I have the right to come to your neighborhood and walk the street f I so choose, and you do not have the right to infringe on my privacy about it. My guess? ZIMMER asked him WHY he was in the neighbrhood, they argued and SOMEONE threw the first punch. Just so happened, as with many "bully" type individuals, ZIMMERS bark was much worse than his bite! 

 

I do NOT FOR ONE SECOND BELIEVE THAT KID TOLD ZIMMER HE WAS GOING TO DIE THAT NIGHT, NOR DO I THINK HE EVER SAW THE GUN! "THUGS" that know the streets are ALREADY PACKIN, and are not walking to the store to get candy and a tea! 

 

Further, the Provisions in the STATE OF FLORIDA call for RIGHT OF PRIVACY, EVEN FOR MINORS---

 

To define "Right of Privacy," one must use a reasonable cause to invade another. In Florida there are tort laws, one consisting of "Intrusion upon seclusion" whereas minors and adults HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE LEFT ALONE!

 

ON THIS PREMISE ALONE, I WANT TO KNOW WHY ZIMMERMAN APPROACHED THE BOY? 

 

THAT is the REAL issue behind ALL of this.

 

Let's say, ZIMMER had NOT approached the boy; the cops may or may not have found him walking back home, with a bag of skittles and an Arizona tea in his hand... He had just turned 17 about a week before. My guess is, had a UNFRMED AUTHORITIVE FIGURE approached him, he'd have stated he went to store, shown his goodies and said, "Yeah, we're watching the game!" 

 

WHY did ZIMMER NOT take the stand? 

Because most "guilty" defendents usually don't! It isn't in their best interest... and they too, have the "RIGHT" to their "privacy." 



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Curious20...
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Posted on Mon, Jul 15, 2013 17:08

Quoting Dakota35:

Hey Pat,

I also feel very sorry for Trayvon's parents.  I feel sorry for Trayvon also because he just made the wrong decision.  As for Trayvon being a bigot and prejudice against white...I don't really know.  Just because he referred to Zimmerman as a cracker, in my opinion, doesn't make him a bigot. (perhaps you know something I don't?)  Me being from the south, people use terms that they've grown up hearing and many time are just words.  I think it is hilarious when I'm called a cracker...I've been called a lot worst.  In fact my Mexican brother calls me all manner of names...including cracker, and I return the favor. 

 

Zimmerman screwed up by following Trayvon, but we must remember that Zimmerman was part of the neighborhood watch. (key word, "watch")  He had a reason for being out and in the area.  And being out isn't against the law.  The law was broken first by Trayvon when he assaulted Zimmerman.  Zimmerman was within his rights to use deadly force.  And FL has the "stand your ground" law which I have mixed opinion about.  When looking at this purely from a legal standpoint, this trial should have never been brought to court.  The public forced the prosecutors to bring charges.  They were in fear of public unrest.  Now, I predict there will be lawsuits brought against the state costing the tax payers more money.

 

If Zimmerman had been a black man, this would have hit the FL news and the rest of the country would have never heard about it.  What does that say about America?  I have very little faith things will change.

 



I agree about that "cracker" comment. "Cracker" doesn't bother me at all either. 

I have no problem with FL's stand your ground law.  I think it's a good law. 

 

True as true can be that if this had been a black on black crime none of us outside of FL would ever have heard of it.

 

I'm not so sure the question needs to be what does this say about America as the question needs to be :"what does this this say about the media?" 

 

 

 



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Posted on Mon, Jul 15, 2013 15:32

rmac -

A defendant is guaranteed a jury of his peers. What you seem to be asking is for the victim to have racial representation on a jury.

 

Diana - while appalling, none of that stuff is relevant to this case. Since your first sentence decries the demonization of defendants, not sure where you're going with this



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Posted on Mon, Jul 15, 2013 13:00

INJURIES:

 

According to the CORONER'S REPORT----

 

MARTIN  had a very small cut by his finger.... (see BOTTOM of picture)

AND NO OTHER INJURIES... (--- other than fatal shot)

 

Was Martin left handed? I find it curious his tiny injury was on LEFT hand, as most right handed males lead while punching with their right hand. 

 

 


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Hoping4Love20...
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Posted on Mon, Jul 15, 2013 12:37

Although I cannot find a complete reliable source for ZIMMERMAN's EXACT weight at shooting, I do have a photo of him days after which would establish he is not of a smaller frame build, but more a med to large frame build. 

 

 

 

I have seen 2 police data (in articles- therefore NOT PROOF!!) but they stated 5'9" and 5'8"... so giving him the 5'8", medium frame, he would belong around the same weight as Martin... (I did see articles claiming he was 185-195, but I don't go by "news media.") 

 

 

 

If someone knows PROOF of his EXACT weight / height, feel free to SHOW PROOF. But I establish them around same weight, with Martin being about 3 inches taller. I dont like the BS chatter, as I have heard Martin was 6'2" and 200 lbs.. NOT TRUE.. I deal with facts!

 

 

 

This is the closest FULL BODY shot I could find of ZIMMER around time of shooting... He is clearly nowhere near the weight he is now. Just looks "normal, medium framed man."



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